What is a Libertarian?

piezoe is too smart and he applies to many rhetorical devices to not realize what he is doing.

1. pretending he did know of the koch brothers so he could approach the subject and take you on his journey of discovery... is a brilliant device.

2. disinformation about the Koch.
3. using that disinformation to denigrate the idea of laissez faire and libertarians that do not comport with his new definition.
4. then so he is not all piss and vinegar he says their ideas would be great if they did not have to comport with (his definition) of reality.
His reality is a world where all idea must bend to work in his idea of perfection.
5. Then he magnificently makes an argument to the extreme (as Max points out above) but makes it credible by bringing up Hobbes... and then using a strawman knocks down.


But... then this pieces de resistance...


Thomas Hobbes libertarian..

This is Animal Farm... we are all equal but some are more equal than others...


On a basic level.... Thomas Hobbes thesis in his biggest work... is the opposite of what libertarians espouse. Now I understand that Hobbes work is deeper that the idea that we grant rights to the govt and then the govt is absolute... but..

That piezoe... could say he is a Thomas Hobbes libertarian..

Is like say he is
a Pontius Pilate Christian
for Karl Marx Capitalist.
Joesph Stalin Tea Partier,
Joseph Goebbles man of integrity.
Piezoe is a Federal Reserve - Sovereign rights guy.


 
jem said:
That piezoe... could say he is a Thomas Hobbes libertarian..

Is like say he is
a Pontius Pilate Christian
for Karl Marx Capitalist.
Joesph Stalin Tea Partier,
Joseph Goebbles man of integrity.
Piezoe is a Federal Reserve - Sovereign rights guy.


More...

:D
 
koch_brothers_fund_tea_party.jpg
 
jem said:
Piezoe.. you wrote... this..

There are these folks, a lot of them on ET, that describe themselves as libertarians but certainly don't have much to do with classical libertarian beliefs, because they want indiscriminate freedom to do whatever they want, particularly when it comes to business. They espouse laissez faire business practice which would once again enslave the working class in sweat shops just like the 19th and early twentieth century. We'd have more monopolies and cartels. The rich would be free; the poor indentured. These folks can't get it through their heads that if you want freedom you need government, but a certain kind of government. They seem incapable of promoting good government, instead they espouse starving the government indiscriminately.

That is specious twist of the ideals of Laissez faire and of what we (the non lefties here) stand for.

We believe in Rule of law and quality local govt and limited federal govt.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
Fundamentals of laissez-faire[edit]
As a system of thought, laissez-faire rests on the following axioms:[15]

1. The individual is the basic unit in society.
2. The individual has a natural right to freedom.
3. The physical order of nature is a harmonious and self-regulating system.
4. Corporations are creatures of the State and therefore must be watched closely by the citizenry due to their propensity to disrupt the Smithian spontaneous order.[21]
These axioms constitute the basic elements of laissez-faire thought, although another basic and often-disregarded element is that markets should be competitive, a rule that the early advocates of laissez-faire have always emphasized.[15] To maximize freedom and allow markets to self-regulate, early advocates of laissez-faire proposed a Impôt unique, a tax on land rent to replace all taxes that damage welfare by penalizing production.
More...
markets don't self regulate. That's a myth.
 
The Koch bros et al hate govt regulations. Keeping the environment clean and workers safe eats into profits and it irritates them. Just like parents irritate their kids when they set limits. The financial sector feels the same way about it and would rather run wild and free..... with the economy at their disposal. Which they have been known to do.

So they have found this thing called Libertarianism which has some popular appeal. Like free range chickens or non-GMO food. It has liberty in it and who could be against such a thing? Even better, it professes that govt is mostly bad. Like those parents with the curfew. No one likes curfews.

The citizens also like this liberty and don't like being told what to do. They want to be like free range teenagers. They also hate being forced to give away some of their money to those lazy minority types who watch their kids sell crack. That really gets their goat.

So Koch Industries and the people that hate giving their money to lazy crack dealers have something in common. They don't see much good in the govt. Their parents are stifling their lives and they want to be free and full of liberty and stuff. Of course this works to Koch Ind. advantage. All they need do is hitch their wagon to this anti-curfew movement and suddenly they have all these liberty loving citizens helping them in their quest to be free of those pesky regulations that help insure the safety of the public.

So that's what the Koch bros. did, basically bankrolling the Tea Party/Libertarian movement. They will spending almost a billion dollars on this next election. You know, for "liberty".

So basically the term "Libertarian" has been co opted, bastardized, redefined and perverted so much that it now means almost anything as long as less govt is involved.

As an example of this is this paragraph from wiki about it....

Although some present-day libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[3] such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources, others, notably libertarian socialists,[4] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management.[5][6] While minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists propose to completely eliminate the state.

So that clears that up huh?
 
Last edited:
Freedom occurs, for example, when the government has no idea what you say on your phone or post on the internet, or how much money you earn.
 
Freedom occurs when the government is afraid of the people, instead of like it is in the USA, where the people are afraid of the government.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top