I am guessing if the marketer is getting a cut every year, his role is more than just a middleman. The way I see it, if the manager has a good track record and is managing a respectable pool of money, why would he agree on anything other than a one-time fee for the marketer? But if the "marketer" has a long standing relationship with the client and is offering a wider variety of services, so that the manager is "hidden" from the client, I guess he is in a position to get a bigger cut or an ongoing rate. The rate in this case would depend on his power to advise the client to move the money to another manager. I suppose many clients don't really care who is managing their money, they simply trust their advisers.Quote from Carboncredit:
No, it's ongoing as long as the funds are deployed. It can add up to serious coin if the funds are successful. If not, it's just the percentage of mgt fee. Lots of third party marketers got rich in 2008 with the 20% of the 20% incentive fee.
What is a fair sales fee?
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Well, if it's "a manager with a good track record and a respectable pool of money"... then they probably don't need a 3rd party marketer, and could reach investors other ways. The power balance would be different.
For the vast, vast majority of emerging managers... the marketer has 50 different funds with (roughly) similar performance that he has access to. Why's he going to promote your fund for a one-time fee, if someone else is willing to pay him an on-going percentage?
Most platforms allow you to buy anytime you wish.
A series of 5 minute bars could be 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, etc
the period of hold could be from a few seconds up to 900 seconds.
To make it interesting for this person trading OPM, he might wish to offset a bar open by number of seconds to avoid bar end effects.
There is a definite challenge for the OP trader to make money, apparently.
I was just pointing out the simplicity of making the annual guaranteed requirement in a brief period during a year' opportunity of trading.
Lets say someone gives him 2 million or 100 times that to trade.
In terms of contracts 2 million dollars is a number of contracts. I seem a contract is 30 points of capital or 1500 dollars equivalent.
Tp return 40% a year to the investor, a person has to make 12 points a contract.
25 trades a day @ net of 2 ticks is the annual requirement and this is one day of about 240 days.
2,000,000 dollars divided by 1500 dollars is about 1500 contracts in ES.
He has 900 seconds to trade a turn and make a net of 2 ticks per contract. Using 50 lots he has to do 30 partial fills to get in and 30 partial fills to get out. Using 100 lots it is half the work.
A person wh ois running a pool or separate accounts for 2 million or 200 million may have to spread his work out over more than one day. But he has 240 days.
A 50% efficiency it would take 2 days to handle 2 million @ 40% a year payout. To handle 200 million it would taske 200 days on the ES alone.
But he can use 80 exchanges so the work load is rather light if he uses 10 exchanges. It cuts the work back to 20 days for processing 200 million.
The question of how to get in at a particular time is easy. Computers do that. Or computer operators do that.
One of the humorous aspects of trading in front of others is the reversal timing they see me doing. I have a rule like the one for your right foot in driving. I only use one hand to operate my mice.
When people see me take my hand off one mouse and go to the trading mouse, they know to have their hand on their trading mouse. I suggest, orally, what is going to happen and they see the screens and they see the pinwheeling on the print list.
I do not do the 2 tick trade 25 times a day. I do 25 to 40 trades and the print shows the partial fill for each.
If a person is trading for others. Those others will do a deal that is the best they can get COMPARED to other traders they try to do deals with. Here in ET, you see that thoe who want others to trader for them have few choices. People who do want to trade for others are only accepting deals so that they have as much capital as they need.
I put up the 40% a year just as an example of how much a trader makes who trades for others. Giving away 40% a year of the capital is not much in terms of profits earned on capital during a year.
Trading every day is not even a requirement. Hitting the open on every third bar is just an example of the ease of pulling 2 ticks every 900 seconds with 1500 contracts or 100 times 1500 contracts.
Trading above the capacity of a market is done by rolling contracts using partial fills to keep extracting the market's offer.
any trading operation can use 10 to 12 leading indicators of what is being traded. It is like running a continuous processing materials handling facitiy.
Raw materials (opportuniies one after antoehr) keep coming down a line whose process continues to add value. When the segmentof adding value is done the products are put in their respective containers to lock in the value added.
Making money is simply an extraction process that is done trend segment by trend segment.
I put up a beginner set of links and nodes to be able to trade just dominant trends during the day and sideline during non dominant trends.
Some people posted charts showing some of the possible trades during agiven day. Per contract, they made returning to an investor 40% a year, a two day effort over he 240 days possible. No day was traded more than 1/3 od the day for he net achieved.
There were 10 cycles shown as the iterativ refinement porcess of pool extraction.
You have a "good enough" orioentation. This orientation may mean that you do not do work to take the market's offer or that you will not work to become more sophisitcated in trading.
If you want to trade on the open of the bar, hit the trade button on your computer or do it as an ATS.
Gee,man..You mention that "good enough'' orientation over and over again. I`ll tell you what..please go to this link http://www.pingtest.net/result/28618674.png and take a look at what IP connection i have, it may seem unbelievable to you but it IS.Yes,we are still leaving in the Stone Age..not my fault.
I work on everything that you suggest, either way i won`t appear here on ET, but in my circumstanses i have to have ''good enough'' orientation, no other way so far..
Let me better define what is possible for anyone no matter how remote from a market.
It is possible for mostly anyone to achieve excellence.
Look at the demands for excellence:
1. Always be on the correct side of the market, and
2. Compound profits.
To do 1. you:
a. Annotate three P, V fractal levels. This informs you as to where you are in the trading cycle. Three trades ar done each cycle:
(1) point 1 to point 2
(2) point 2 to point 3.
(3) point 3 to ftt.
b. You note the volume leading price and use PRV (Pro Rata Volume).
(1) point 1 is at a peak, a trough occurs on the prior rtl and point 2 is a peak
(2) point 2 is followed by a trough at point 3.
(3) form the trough at point 3 you go to a peak at ftt which is the new point 1.
c. You know the ending volume of each bar because of PRV. You use the PRV to do cycles 1 through 5.
(1) just trade donimant moves (pt 1 to pt2; pt 3 to ftt as shown in cycle 1. Here you learn what to look for to go bar by bar on a dominant trend.
(2) add non dominant trading by following cycle 2 in addition to cycle 1 dominant trades.
(3) connect dominant to non dominant trades together using cycle 3.
(4) Introduce the pattern to your trading in cycle 4 and 5. Learn that move 3 (pt 3 to ftt) is dominant and so is the next first trend move (pt 1 to point 2).
d. learn the relatiionship of YM to ES by applying all of the above to YM (2 min) and seeing YM leads ES which you are trading.
e. Add the DOM sums of each bid and offer to understand the minority controls price movement. Also learn that a lot of the majority is left holding the bag on their unfilled limit orders.
f. Learn that DOM Walls are where price reverses. Also come to understand all the games played by those who add and delete big orders not expecting any fills.
g. learn how to front run the smart money using the PREM. PREM is NOT maintained as time passes and its bias is a leading indicator of front runners at work. Join the front runners and let the herd "push you". Use the S/S pane to see the smart money move ahead of the hesd.
h. Use YM and ES OTM chats to monitor the precise opportunities to carve the extremes to the tick. Here you see that the opporunity to take profit segments is a wide window available to all traders.
To do 2. you do:
a. Monitor profits. When you add 30 points of profits, add a contract.
b. Dwell at 5 contracts until you have 150 points profit and go to 10 contracts.
c. Dwell at 10 contracts until you have 300 points profit and go to 20 contracts.
d. Dwell at 20 contracts until you have 300 points profit and go to 30 contracts.
e. Dwell at 30 contracts until you have 300 points profit and go to 40 contracts.
f. Dwell at 40 contracts until you have 300 points profit and go to 50 contracts.
When you reach 50 contracts, continue to add contracts and do partial fills by splitting trades into multiple parts according to the T&S.
As seen on the T&S and the DOM and the OTR charts. Every trade can be carved to max profits for that segment. Price dwells each tick of the way to the WALL. You know at the Wall not all orders will fill before the price turns. By running two T&S's side by side you see all tradesand only trades @ 50 and above. It is ey to see when chicken feed traders are screwing up and smart money is holding.
To me exellence means using all tools and exacting optimum profits all the time the market is open.
Good Enough means just slowly becoming rich.
The financial industry long has been dominanted by Ivy League C+ History majors. They hire the sales and quants to do the work. The only incentives are bonuses and commissions and fees. This means trading with excellence has zreo competition. Competition doesn't exist for traders who trade with excellence.
There are two different focuses involved. Big money strives to deal with edges and anomalies in markets and making fees selling "sophisticated" instruments. The excellence based trader strives to be "taking" the continuing market's offer as a consequence of price change. This is pool extraction; an act of simply transferring capital out of pools all the time the capital is available.
Being correct means being on the right side of the market during market "continuation". Being correct means, changing sides of the market at the brief points of "CHANGE".
Markets have two events: CONTINUATION and CHANGE. The above is a means of measuring each and know that you know when the status goes from one state to the other.
Tools are used to know that you know. The tools are built in your mind. Once built thay surface immediately when needed since your sensing triggers their automatic appearance.
It takes about 60 days to go from 5K to millionaire these days if you are older than a fifth grader.
Postponing building your mind is so very common. It has to do with laziness and "inventing" as an alternative.
Anyone can reveal to themselves how slovenly they are in a few days. Just spend 12 days logging the cycle 1 events as they occur in the ES. Simply post each and every page of the log. In 12 days you more than triple your capital.
By putting the nodes on 3x5 cards in your own words, you begin to build your mind. Everytime you get an emotional signal, you journal the emotion and the context of the market and your mind. Then you go to the node card and improve what you wrote. You iteratively refine your understanding. You increase the long term memory associatated with the context of the market and you. You are drilling into your mind the reality of how to partner with a market you totally come to understand.
Go to a second or thrid grade teacher at your private school where your kids go on tuition. A typical tuition at schools where my kids went is 45K a year Ask the teacher how to learn addition or multiplication or the alphabet as used in words.
Tell him you have 24 nodes to learn and they all have definitions and a specific meaning. Say their are lines that comnnect to nodes and you cannot use any other pathways.
In Greenwich in the early 60's, I taught parents who were executives how to do math for making business decisions. Their children were taking "Environmental Math" as a course. "Enviroment" meant WEALTHiness. Their classes had full S&P brokerage service and a courtesy from S&P. All class students charted stocks daily using their WSJ subscription dropped at the school daily.
Any person can start out with one sheet of paper. He adds 3X5 cards. He logs. He itieratively refines his 3X5 card definitions. 5K turns into 15K in 12 days or less. The mind is building long term memory as inference to match with sensing.
Excellence comes from know that you know how and why the market works to way it does. It is like learning adding, multiplication and reading. Can you do any of those things?
