For me it was more living expenses and time commitment rather that actual significant money lost to the market. I first traded at a prop firm w/o guidance at all for 10 months and in that time I made 30K gross but was down due to commissions (mind you, I really had no idean what I was doing). After I got some guidance and started back at square one, I started making consistent money after 6 months and haven't looked back. But in all that time, I was paying rent, groceries, CC bills, college loans etc. Luckily my parents subsidized me while I was learning. Otherwise, I dont know where I would be right now.
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what has been you "tuition fee" to become successful?
- Thread starter c.chugani
- Start date
Quote from c.chugani:
How much capital, in percentage (on average), should one expect to lose in order to hang in there and improve their trading?
So how much money and time should one devote (or expect to devote) in order to improve their trading profitability and winning consistency?
I started with $90K back in 1996 and lost almost 35% when I turned things around. Although it was painful to have lost that much it was a motivator for me.
And expect to put in a lot of time if you're truly serious about trading. When it's your sole source of income you have to. Getting to a point where you have an approach or system that works consistently will help you sleep a whole lot better.
My parents are economically backing me as of now (ie. housing, education, food).
Trading money lost is all from my savings.
My parents are not supporting me morally though. They consider the career of trading as an excuse to gamble. They basically are waiting for me to blow out through my savings and resume and normal daily job.
I am currently studying my degree for masters in marketing management.
I am trading in the mornings when I am free from university. I am currently losing money though. I have no mentor, and no help from ppl personally.
All my support and knowledge I get from books and the internet.
Even then, I realistically don't think i shall survive the expensive learning curve that trading requires. I might have to look for a part time job afterall.
Trading money lost is all from my savings.
My parents are not supporting me morally though. They consider the career of trading as an excuse to gamble. They basically are waiting for me to blow out through my savings and resume and normal daily job.
I am currently studying my degree for masters in marketing management.
I am trading in the mornings when I am free from university. I am currently losing money though. I have no mentor, and no help from ppl personally.
All my support and knowledge I get from books and the internet.
Even then, I realistically don't think i shall survive the expensive learning curve that trading requires. I might have to look for a part time job afterall.
Quote from Steve Tvardek:
For me it was more living expenses and time commitment rather that actual significant money lost to the market. I first traded at a prop firm w/o guidance at all for 10 months and in that time I made 30K gross but was down due to commissions (mind you, I really had no idean what I was doing). After I got some guidance and started back at square one, I started making consistent money after 6 months and haven't looked back. But in all that time, I was paying rent, groceries, CC bills, college loans etc. Luckily my parents subsidized me while I was learning. Otherwise, I dont know where I would be right now.
Quote from DHOHHI:
Getting to a point where you have an approach or system that works consistently will help you sleep a whole lot better.
With my current results, I am having trouble getting sleep - and that is, my losses are a pittance to what many people have experienced.
I guess its all about the mindset? How do you try to force your mind to accept the danger/risk in turn for a better reward?
How do you even KNOW if there is even a reward after all the risk/worry one goes through?
Trading is truly my sole interest. But I am beginning to notice how the journey can get very, very tough mentally.
Quote from c.chugani:
With my current results, I am having trouble getting sleep - and that is, my losses are a pittance to what many people have experienced.
I guess its all about the mindset? How do you try to force your mind to accept the danger/risk in turn for a better reward?
How do you even KNOW if there is even a reward after all the risk/worry one goes through?
Trading is truly my sole interest. But I am beginning to notice how the journey can get very, very tough mentally.
For me it took time to "accept" the risk/reward and the associated outcomes. The losing days can be incredibly demoralizing and the winning days euphoric. Finding a balance between the two ... so as to keep your emotions on a more even keel is when I started to do better. I hated losing (days) but finally accepted that losing is a part of the game and always will be. So ... you accept such outcomes and can't "worry" day in and day out. Early on it may be difficult to have confidence that your winning days (and net profits) will outweigh your losing days (and losses). But with time (and confidence that's tied to a system that is net profitable) it should hopefully come easier.
My "tuition" was $100,000 over the first 18 months.
After that time, I decided to completely chunk everything that I "thought" I knew, erased all indicators, threw away all books, deleted all website favorites, opened up a naked chart and watched it... and watched it... and watched it some more.
I figured if 95% traders are losing money, and "everyone" uses the same basic indicators, reads the same books, etc., then I would try the opposite. It has worked out better than I could have dreamed.
Downrivertrader's posts on psychology and trusting your instincts, here on this site, are excellent. I wish that they had been available back when I was starting out.
Ignore the vast majority of what you read on these forums and stick to learning WHY and HOW the markets work.
After that time, I decided to completely chunk everything that I "thought" I knew, erased all indicators, threw away all books, deleted all website favorites, opened up a naked chart and watched it... and watched it... and watched it some more.
I figured if 95% traders are losing money, and "everyone" uses the same basic indicators, reads the same books, etc., then I would try the opposite. It has worked out better than I could have dreamed.
Downrivertrader's posts on psychology and trusting your instincts, here on this site, are excellent. I wish that they had been available back when I was starting out.
Ignore the vast majority of what you read on these forums and stick to learning WHY and HOW the markets work.
My cost was approx $30K...and a couple years of my life.
But...
I started to research, and paper trade strategies, that some other "Sucessful" traders were using.
Need to paper trade for at least 1 year, so you go thru all the different earnings , and seasonal cycles, then see how you did for the year.
KEEP EMOTION OUT of it...Do NOT fall in love with a particular stock. It will have good days and bad days. As long as it is working for you make what you can and you need to know when to move on to another candidate.
It is a BUSINESS... Not a hobby.
Real Money is exchanged and if you do not pratice Money management on EACH trade, you will be done quickly.
Set your Profit Target and Stop Loss.
I set up a target to make approx 8-15% on each trade.
I also set up a "Break-even" point on each trade to lessen the amount of loss. (I had enough of them earlier in my trading history).
Do Not OVER-TRADE...This is the hard one. You see a couple wins and you thinks "That was easy, and I could have made more", and you start to load up more positions (and commisions)..Keep it simple.
What I would suggust first, investigate the strategy you want to do. Find a Mentor that has been sucessful and follow his trades...Anyone that would like to make a constant income off the market, I would suggust to do Spread Trade options.
Pick a stock that has been in a rolling pattern for a couple months, and pick a strike far enough OTM past the support or resistance, with < 20 trading days left. You will get the option premium as your reward each month.
Iron Condors would be great also, but on certain stocks or index options. These will have a wide profit window at expiration that works out pretty well. I have not personally done a "Live" IC trade, but have paper trade a couple stocks that were profitable @ exp. Will probably be doing IC trades after the OCT expiration on SPX, CME or GOOG.
Click on the attachment as an example.
But...
I started to research, and paper trade strategies, that some other "Sucessful" traders were using.
Need to paper trade for at least 1 year, so you go thru all the different earnings , and seasonal cycles, then see how you did for the year.
KEEP EMOTION OUT of it...Do NOT fall in love with a particular stock. It will have good days and bad days. As long as it is working for you make what you can and you need to know when to move on to another candidate.
It is a BUSINESS... Not a hobby.
Real Money is exchanged and if you do not pratice Money management on EACH trade, you will be done quickly.
Set your Profit Target and Stop Loss.
I set up a target to make approx 8-15% on each trade.
I also set up a "Break-even" point on each trade to lessen the amount of loss. (I had enough of them earlier in my trading history).
Do Not OVER-TRADE...This is the hard one. You see a couple wins and you thinks "That was easy, and I could have made more", and you start to load up more positions (and commisions)..Keep it simple.
What I would suggust first, investigate the strategy you want to do. Find a Mentor that has been sucessful and follow his trades...Anyone that would like to make a constant income off the market, I would suggust to do Spread Trade options.
Pick a stock that has been in a rolling pattern for a couple months, and pick a strike far enough OTM past the support or resistance, with < 20 trading days left. You will get the option premium as your reward each month.
Iron Condors would be great also, but on certain stocks or index options. These will have a wide profit window at expiration that works out pretty well. I have not personally done a "Live" IC trade, but have paper trade a couple stocks that were profitable @ exp. Will probably be doing IC trades after the OCT expiration on SPX, CME or GOOG.
Click on the attachment as an example.
Attachments
Quote from AKUMATOTENSHI:
Subscription to IBD daily, books, and lots of time 6:00AM to 10:00PM Mon-Fri Sat Sun usually 4-6 hours minus interuptions. Time and discipline trump capital starting costs.
Akuma
bingo.
it really doesnt matter what the "average joe" loses, and i doubt you could even compile that type of info. to say a number...i would guess around $25k on average...most people quit after they realize there is work involved. some lose much more, some lose much less..or none. I personally have not lost any money becuse i stuck with it and made back my losses little by little.
i dedicate my life to this stuff....And there in lies the sacrifice. i think you have to sacrifice to be successful.
for example.. I wake up at 5, go to be at 8:30 and have my nose in this stuff consantly. I read "trader vic" and "reminiscensces of a stock operater" to my daughter at night so she will go to bed. I eat breakfast with a book in my hand....i always have books in the car in case i have to wait for more than 5 minutes for anything istudy something about the markets. This year i am not flying home to visit family becuse i have a new fund and dont want any problems...stuff like that.
trust me, it isnt the loss of money that will effect you the most.