What happened to our Armed Forces this past decade?

I gotta disagree Haps.

The protestors are by and large not maniacal "leftist" whackos. Most really beleive war is the worst way to solve differences. They uphold a basic overarching modus operandi - peace - above all. Who among us does not share this as a way of life? Even though many of us feel we must resort to arms in times of crisis, a pacifist does not. Most of the protestors ranks are filled with pacifists and it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect them to remain quiet now that the bullets are flying. This is when they are most compelled to speak.

The truly insidious are those that are operating here promoting the Arab terrorists. They are the quiet ones. The so-called 'Muslim charities". The organizations that operate the Websites that flash the torn and dead bodies from the conflicts of the middle east to raise funds for the terrorists and capitalize on our charitable instincts. Right here in our country! So called charities operating in the US raising funds to support the murderers of our people. They do so under the guise of Antisemitism and antiZionism, but their targets are so much greater than that. These groups aided and abetted the mass murderers who committed the 9/11 holocaust.

The Arab/Musim terrorist is a sophisticated resourceful global threat. They are ideologically and theologically compelled to infiltrate and destroy the non-muslim, with the United States and thier people as target #1.

Bastards of nature they are.
 
Quote from dgabriel:

I gotta disagree Haps.

The protestors are by and large not maniacal "leftist" whackos. Most really beleive war is the worst way to solve differences. They uphold a basic overarching modus operandi - peace - above all. Who among us does not share this as a way of life? Even though many of us feel we must resort to arms in times of crisis, a pacifist does not. Most of the protestors ranks are filled with pacifists and it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect them to remain quiet now that the bullets are flying. This is when they are most compelled to speak.
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dgabriel, I don't disagree with you at all. Really, I don't. I think many, if not most, of the protesters are basically reasonable and educated people. I don't fault them in the slightest for having their convictions. Or for speaking out about those convictions. What I DO feel is wrong is that by protesting now that war has begun, they are doing more harm than good. If they really are pacifists, they should understand that their protests could very well cause more American deaths by encouraging the Iraqis to fight on longer or more desparately than they would have if the US wasn't so obviously divided.

Protesters give the Iraqis hope: hope for a cease-fire, hope for (futher) restrictions to be placed on American troops that can then be taken advantage of tactically, hope that enough public opposition will result in withdrawal.

You're right, it is totally unrealistic to expect pacifists to be silent at a time when they are by nature the most vocal; I have no illusions that protests will stop anytime soon. I'm just expressing my opinion that now is the time for our country to, if not come together, then to at least not help our enemies and endanger our troops.

Then, once our troops are out of danger, they can scream to the heavens as much as they like, or, better yet, protest like hell at the voting booth where it really counts.

If Gore were in office and he did something internationally I vehemently disagreed with and put our troops under fire, I would not be out in the streets screaming for his ouster and calling him names.

Why? Because risking further American casualties takes precedence over exercising my right to protest. Isn't the nobler path sometimes found by NOT exercising one's power?

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As far as the "muslim charities" fundraising and trying to justify terrorists, you'll hear nothing from me save total agreement.
 
Hapaboy,

I am not sure that the protestors are having a negative influence on combat operations for the Americans. It is difficult to imagine that in the field Ali will exhort Rasheed to fire more mortars because there are protestors on the streets of US cities.

The Iraqi regime is fighting for its life, and will do so just as fiercely against a united or divided foe.

Its not the protestors that the Iraqi leaders are banking on in a possible negotiated settlement, its your stomach and mine for the bloodshed of our countrymen and the cost of conflict.

 
Quote from dgabriel:

Hapaboy,

I am not sure that the protestors are having a negative influence on combat operations for the Americans. It is difficult to imagine that in the field Ali will exhort Rasheed to fire more mortars because there are protestors on the streets of US cities.

The Iraqi regime is fighting for its life, and will do so just as fiercely against a united or divided foe.

Its not the protestors that the Iraqi leaders are banking on in a possible negotiated settlement, its your stomach and mine for the bloodshed of our countrymen and the cost of conflict.
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It's not Ali and Rasheed who are paying attention to the protesters. It's Saddam and his commanders. It's the Arab media that points to our protesters and says, "See! Even the American people are against the war."

If the shoe was on the other foot and you were Saddam, tell me you wouldn't grasp at every straw you could to delay the inevitable.
 
Well, I can't begin to think like Saddam, but if we are applying rational processes to his thinking then I think Saddam is paying more attention to the polls, which say that 70% of Americans support the war, than to the anti-war protestors. As long as Bush has a huge majority, a bunch of vocal peaceniks won't mean shit in the public debate.

Regarding public anti-war protest as against the troops interests or having a material benefit for the enemy is a canard designed to strengthen the hand of the Republicans for domestic political purposes. They want to throw some of the heat on the protestors.

The protestors are the only ones who have said don't send our young off to die. Bush, Rummy and their crew only see the numbers of dead on paper. This Saddam knows and only by sending too many body bags back to us will Saddam win this war by not losing it first. The protestors have no impact on his decision making. That's like playing poker and aiming for the chips that are already in your pile. You want the ante on the table. Your vote is the one he wants Hapaboy. When you march on Washington and say "Enough"!, that's when Saddam wins.

How many dead Americans in Iraq will make you march Hapaboy? 3,000, the amount we lost on 9/11? 20,000? 100,000? What's your threshold? Bush has said he has no threshold. Remember his recent statement, "We Will Accept No Outcome But Complete Victory"? Don't think that the White House does not have a magic number they believe they can't exceed without losing 2004.
 
Quote from dgabriel:

Well, I can't begin to think like Saddam, but if we are applying rational processes to his thinking then I think Saddam is paying more attention to the polls, which say that 70% of Americans support the war, than to the anti-war protestors. As long as Bush has a huge majority, a bunch of vocal peaceniks won't mean shit in the public debate.
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30% represents tens of millions, dgabriel. It is a significant straw for Saddam to hold on to. He doesn't need 100% against the war, he needs 50%. He knows darn well that the amount of Americans in body bags is directly correlated to public opinion.

Your vote is the one he wants Hapaboy. When you march on Washington and say "Enough"!, that's when Saddam wins.

How many dead Americans in Iraq will make you march Hapaboy? 3,000, the amount we lost on 9/11? 20,000? 100,000? What's your threshold? Bush has said he has no threshold. Remember his recent statement, "We Will Accept No Outcome But Complete Victory"? Don't think that the White House does not have a magic number they believe they can't exceed without losing 2004.
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As long as our troops are fighting there, I would not march. I have faith in them and our leadership.

How many dead Americans in AMERICA will make you change your mind, dgabriel? Apparently 3,000 wasn't enough.
 
How many dead Americans will make me change my mind about what? Tell me, change my mind about what? About what? That is the most nonsensical statement I have heard from you, which is quite a statement on my part.

Hapaboy, please resist the urge to exploit the tragic event of 9/11 to pursue your domestic right wing agenda.

I lived through the WTC, not off in the briarpatch where you are, I was here, I gathered my family together in dread that day, not knowing what may happen next in my city. My friends worked at WTC, my next door nieghbors perished there. Don't preach your bullshit to me.
 
Quote from dgabriel:

How many dead Americans will make me change my mind about what? Tell me, change my mind about what? About what? That is the most nonsensical statement I have heard from you, which is quite a statement on my part.

Hapaboy, please resist the urge to exploit the tragic event of 9/11 to pursue your domestic right wing agenda.

I lived through the WTC, not off in the briarpatch where you are, I was here, I gathered my family together in dread that day, not knowing what may happen next in my city. My friends worked at WTC, my next door nieghbors perished there. Don't preach your bullshit to me.
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Hey, you asked me an honest question, so I asked you one back.

I resent the comment about exploiting 9/11.

I had a friend working at the WTC. My very good buddy lost several relatives who were firefighters and policemen. He feels the total opposite of the way you do.

So don't tell me it's bullshit. The question still stands:

If 3,000 American lives weren't enough to illustrate to you the need to pursue and eliminate our enemies in order to prevent another 9/11 or worse from happening again, how many lives will?

p.s. I see you added the "dirty filthy a**hole" part. Yeah, you're the class act here, dGAB.
 
Quote from hapaboy:


What IS wrong with it, IMHO, is that when that sentiment leads to protests while the war is underway. Protesting is not going to persuade Bush to reverse his course, does nothing to help our troops, emboldens the Iraqis, and in doing so endangers American lives.

The most effective protesting is done at the voting booth.
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would the same line of reasoning have applied to the Viet Nam war?
 
I never said there was no need to get our enemies. Never did I oppose the war as unjust or oppose it in principle. Never did I oppose the war on terrorism. Just the opposite in fact.

That's your game hapaboy, to accuse those who don't agree with your politics of selling out the country. To ascribe opinions and views to others that they do not hold. You are truly disgusting. Its people like you who threaten the sanctity of freedom in America.

Hapaboy, the true Amerikan.
 
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