What does it mean to you if a government runs out of money?

ivanbaj · Jul 11, 2009

California is bankrupt. Does it mean Apple, IBM, Cisco etc are going down? Does it mean that thousands of successful small businesses are going down? Holywood? What does it mean to you? What services provided by the government do you care about? What do you want the government to do for you?

What if you hear that the French government is bankrupt or the Swedish? Is it the same as the California government going bankrupt or the federal government for that matter?

How much do we depend on the government in California or the USA as a whole?

How about traders from other countries, how much do you depend on your government?

IanMacQuaide · Jul 12, 2009

I want our Federal Government to protect us from attack by another country, protect our borders, and protect interstate commerce. Well, ok, a few Federal Parks are nice.

I want my state government to enact/enforce outrageously punitive felony criminal laws, protect intrastate commerce, and do at least a half-assed job of protecting us from physical attack.
Since over 60% of all murders go unsolved, that'd be a 10% reduction in the murder rate.
Other than the above, attract good businesses to my state, and leave me alone.

The Federal and State Governments don't need much $$ to do the above. Some park fees and a 10% flat tax for the Feds and a 5% flat tax for the states would solve a lot of problems.

dumb_mother · Jul 12, 2009

it means the people who are dependents of the government are going to get a rude awakening- so that would be the welfare population the democrats have built up over the last few decades- when the only skill you have is saying "i want" you are in trouble.

Eight · Jul 12, 2009

The various public sector entities are not the culture, they are not the economy, they are pretty much criminal organizations that ride on the back of our prosperity... I'm seeing the CA collapse as a possible experiment in just how little or much we really need them at all... The National Guard does little to nothing for CA, the Highway Patrol is great really but we could go on without them, the welfare system.. whatever, I'd love to see what would happen if they all got nothing at all... that would be fun to watch to say the least... they might have to go into private sector work.. we are paying a zillion people to not work and using illegals from the south to do menial work, it's bullshit...

day4night · Jul 12, 2009

Wow, lots of ideologues. Now's NOT the time to cut gov't spending. Suuuure, let the banks fail, let the gov'ts fail, liquidate everything, reduce the money supply, burn it all! Let's go beyond John Galt... Riiiight. The private sector will create new banks and a whole new economy within a few months! Riiiiight... Rome will be rebuilt in a day! What an interesting and morally wholesome experiment a Second Great Depression could be! Come on now. Read some history.

Two unorthodox suggestions for California:

1) Legalize marijuana and tax the hell out of it. Let the market bring weed down to regular commodity prices (maybe $40 a pound to grow?) while taxing it to keep current prices (about $6,000 a pound). Sacramento needs to harvest California grass money.

2) Drill for oil off the coast.

I don't know but financed well these just might solve much of the crisis. Not immediately of course.

You cut gov't jobs right now and just watch... There's already no private demand. You guys might consider reading some financial history; capitalism takes time to create demand. The near term and long term solutions are pretty much opposite, so I guess that's what blinds people. I also wonder if some might not like to see someone get punished. Like California deserves to suffer.

Pekelo · Jul 12, 2009

Quote from ivanbaj:

What if you hear that the French government is bankrupt or the Swedish? Is it the same as the California government going bankrupt or the federal government for that matter?

Dude, really. A federal government or country NEVER runs out of money, because they just print more. That means obviously inflation.

So you can not compare CA with France in this regard. Even CA can print money in IOUs....

IanMacQuaide · Jul 12, 2009

Quote from day4night:

Wow, lots of ideologues. Now's NOT the time to cut gov't spending. Suuuure, let the banks fail, let the gov'ts fail, liquidate everything, reduce the money supply, burn it all! Let's go beyond John Galt... Riiiight. The private sector will create new banks and a whole new economy within a few months! Riiiiight... Rome will be rebuilt in a day! What an interesting and morally wholesome experiment a Second Great Depression could be! Come on now. Read some history.

Two unorthodox suggestions for California:

1) Legalize marijuana and tax the hell out of it. Let the market bring weed down to regular commodity prices (maybe $40 a pound to grow?) while taxing it to keep current prices (about $6,000 a pound). Sacramento needs to harvest California grass money.

2) Drill for oil off the coast.

I don't know but financed well these just might solve much of the crisis. Not immediately of course.

You cut gov't jobs right now and just watch... There's already no private demand. You guys might consider reading some financial history; capitalism takes time to create demand. The near term and long term solutions are pretty much opposite, so I guess that's what blinds people. I also wonder if some might not like to see someone get punished. Like California deserves to suffer.

I'm not going to let you get away with calling me an idealogue and trying to marginalize my ideas.
Your so-called solutions are nothing more than ideas, which makes you an idealogue. As for what you think I need to read, you're not my superior. My ideas and suggestions for what needs be done to get us out of this mess are, at the very least, as valid as yours.

ivanbaj · Jul 12, 2009

Quote from Pekelo:

Dude, really. A federal government or country NEVER runs out of money, because they just print more. That means obviously inflation.

So you can not compare CA with France in this regard. Even CA can print money in IOUs....

Unfortunately you are correct. There is a loophole. We can only hope that they are wise enough to spend the new money well. At the end of the day what will be the deference between what we have and a country with a central government that owns and controls everything?

peilthetraveler · Jul 12, 2009

It would affect everyone if the government runs out of money(even though the federal government will just print more) You will have higher crime, since there is no one to pay for police. After all...if people can go into a bank and rob it and nobody is going to stop them...they will do it. The poor people will start stealing food from stores because they have no food stamps so that means increased costs for everyone else. No more money for roads? That will be bad. If you want to know how bad roads can get, drive down to mexico and then drive on some of those "free" roads. (In mexico there are two types of roads...the good roads that you pay a toll on and the free roads. The free roads look like RPGs have hit them)

But the worst would be an attack from any country that we have made enemies with. As soon as our defenses are down, they would love to shoot a couple of missles at us, so they can put in THEIR history books that they took down the US by force.

maxpi · Jul 12, 2009

Quote from peilthetraveler:

It would affect everyone if the government runs out of money(even though the federal government will just print more) You will have higher crime, since there is no one to pay for police. After all...if people can go into a bank and rob it and nobody is going to stop them...they will do it. The poor people will start stealing food from stores because they have no food stamps so that means increased costs for everyone else. No more money for roads? That will be bad. If you want to know how bad roads can get, drive down to mexico and then drive on some of those "free" roads. (In mexico there are two types of roads...the good roads that you pay a toll on and the free roads. The free roads look like RPGs have hit them)

But the worst would be an attack from any country that we have made enemies with. As soon as our defenses are down, they would love to shoot a couple of missles at us, so they can put in THEIR history books that they took down the US by force.

There would be a period of ajustment for sure, it's not like the public sector doesn't do anything at all. The culture they are not, the culture would continue, the lifeblood of the economy they are not, they talk like they are but at best they facilitate it and for the most part they suck the life out of it... it's government that outlaws the marijuana and can't get the taxes from it, it's government that imposes the income tax that completely misses taxes from the underground economy.. the private sector is never that stupid... the US was the most productive country as far back as 1815 and up to maybe the 1960's. The Great Society took care of that problem, now we produce little to nothing and it's low quality level stuff typically...