What does Ed Seykota mean by "everyone gets what they want from market"?

[lawrence-lugar]

In the market wizards book, Ed Seykota mentioned "everyone gets what they want from the market"

share your wisdom?

It's quite simple and obvious and literal what he means.
If you have trouble interpreting a book...I'm not so sure you will easily succeed in trading, or elsewhere.

If you want a girlfriend/boyfriend...you have to step out of your house and be happy and smile and flirt and be a genuinely interested and interesting person to the other person.

If you want to have a good day today...chances are you'll make that happen.
If you want to have a bad day today...chances are a bad day will come to you.

Take Tony Robbins or even Tim Sykes as examples...they got...what they wanted, from the market...by taking all the pro-active steps required to get there.
All of these same principles...equally works or translates or applies...to trading the market, successfully...or not successfully.

Gamblers/traders approach or treat the market the same way. -- Some are just psychologically fucked in the head, to be honest.
I personally want large % gains, in spite of the inherent risk. So I approach the market in such a way...that that window of opportunity stays open and allows me to potentially seize it. Also known as that classic Risk vs Reward linear rising chart.

 

[Jack1960]

Real question, 'How can losers becone winners?'

 

[Sprout]

Real question, 'How can losers becone winners?'

Engage in a therapeutic modality that releases the trauma held in your body.

Ed talks about Fred, everyone is connected to Fred. Losers connection to Fred is different then the winners connection to Fred.

His process amplifies what’s in Fred in the protection and safety of a conscious and aware circle whose intention is to release energy in Fred. By releasing energy in Fred in a controlled manner then one doesn’t have to make an unconscious choice that manifests the same expression of energy.

Fred is everyone’s connected unconscious desires kinda like a psychic energy exchange. That why losers lose to winners and winners win over losers and in both cases both parties are being satisfied.

The difference in cases is which one initiates.

 

[learner88]

Thanks. I understand it better now after reading your reply. What Seykota meant was we get what we want on a subconscious level. Nobody consciously would want to lose but some would want to lose subconsciously because they felt guilty about it.

When I first read “Market Wizards”, I didn’t quite understand this statement. Now after trading (and mostly losing) for a few years, I can say I finally get what Ed meant.

It’s absolutely true in my case. I realized I actually felt better when losing than winning deep in my heart. After thinking hard about this, it eventually came to me that I had a covert conviction that trading is a bad activity that does no good to the society’s well-being.

My profession is in science and technology and I have done well in my career - published a number of scientific papers and did a few technical inventions, which are all undoubtedly benefiting the society.

Once I figured this out and abandoned that secret conviction, my trading got much better. I told myself I deserved the winnings because I worked hard for it. So it seems to be a psychological phenomenon, but it can be hidden in the sub/unconsciousness and not immediately obvious.

 

[southall]

Obviously not everyone gets what they consciously want from the markets, which is to make a lot of money.
He is saying that people get what they subconsciously want. Which might be something completely unrelated to money.

I think Seykota is saying the markets are an ideal place for people to act out unresloved subconscious dramas. Everyone has unresolved issues, demons and such, some people have more than others.
When things get stressful while trading that is when your unresolved issues start to surface.

Seykota has even said he is blessed because he does not appear to have many demons which might sabotage him, at least compared to most other people.

Seykota also talks about the conscious mind sometimes blocking the subconscious mind from doing it's thing, but eventually the subconscious mind being more powerful wins and always gets what it wants.

 

[Van_der_Voort_4]

IMO, the quote is mostly bullshit and should be disregarded. Sure, there are certain types of people that self sabotage because of some psychological issue so that by constantly losing at trading they are in a sense getting what they "want". But as you pointed out, the vast majority prefer to win so losing is not getting what they want from the market.

Agree,sample selection bias.Ed Seykota is statistically insignificant and doesn't reflect general population.
It's like looking at the sky at night and only seeing bright stars.

Of course in the industry with so much money at stake pseudo experts showed up trying to help as if we can continue on new path.

To tell a person who lost money in near random selection game everything went wrong,because he wanted to sabotage it isn't complete picture.The winner can have the same characteristics,he just got lucky for other reasons, he had longer time horizon and never sold when others panic or had bigger bankroll.
The only time a could agree with this is when trader lost more than he could afford

 

[Handle123]

When I first read “Market Wizards”, I didn’t quite understand this statement. Now after trading (and mostly losing) for a few years, I can say I finally get what Ed meant.

It’s absolutely true in my case. I realized I actually felt better when losing than winning deep in my heart. After thinking hard about this, it eventually came to me that I had a covert conviction that trading is a bad activity that does no good to the society’s well-being.

My profession is in science and technology and I have done well in my career - published a number of scientific papers and did a few technical inventions, which are all undoubtedly benefiting the society.

Once I figured this out and abandoned that secret conviction, my trading got much better. I told myself I deserved the winnings because I worked hard for it. So it seems to be a psychological phenomenon, but it can be hidden in the sub/unconsciousness and not immediately obvious.

First of all, some will understand my post, some won't and some think it bullshit, and that is ok as well. As years pass and as your knowledge of markets and self hopefully increase, the same whether a book or price action of what you read or see changes and yet it been right in front of you entire time. Two books by John Hill written in late 70's, Stock & Commodity Market Trend Trading by Advanced Technical Analysis and Scientific Interpretation of Barcharts. I bought these books in the 1980s and read twice a year, each time I walk away with different perspectives and still don't understand all that he was writing about, even visited him in the 90s and didn't understand yet. The is old phrase "DON'T JUDGE A MAN UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN HIS BOOTS - "Don't criticize another person's work until you've tried to do it yourself; don't judge another person's life until you've been forced to live it". Rings more true today than written, we all have different crises to live through.

My taste of profitable long term trading in stocks for several years may have been a curse than a positive influence in learning how to trade Commodities long term and intra-day, price bars are price bars, right? Was a time in my life where I was never looking back, in mid 80s was married, step-father, working 60 hours for government a week, school full time, buying houses to rent out, sleep 3-4 hours, and learning how to lose in the Futures markets, I learned how to lose like my life depended on it and wasn't upset at it at some point, I was teaching my brain to be the happiest when I lost. How many of you now get the shakes, huge fear, horrible thoughts of a trade you put on and damn thing is profitable? At some point when I was in a profitable trade, I start puking, LOL. I had taught my brain how to lose and enjoy it. I was doing exactly what Seykota meant by everyone gets what they want from the markets, and yet I told myself I am learning by lying to myself. Marriage went south but not cause of trading, least lied to myself then, stayed a step-father to son and ex became best friend as years went by. To this day, most "ex's" better friends after. Took seven long years to re-teach my brain not to feel GREAT when losing, the very worst part of my life till my father's suicide which leaves you in different cycles of "where was I that I didn't see it", you can't save everyone and it a bitch to save yourself from yourself. You get from life of what you put in and how to help others, as you might not think others help you, maybe try looking smaller.

Hypnosis helped me much then and I still go 2-4 times a year, to reteach your brain, you have to get in deeper to subconscious, and at some point my brain was stopping to be my enemy of finding the losing trades and began to expect to be profitable overall on every trade. Sekota went onto teaching course on how to breath, which in a way very good, more oxygen you can give brain, more activity it can handle. And made "Trading Tribe".

http://www.seykota.com/tt/default.html

https://www.quora.com/What-were-Ed-Seykota-trading-strategies

http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=7912

Enjoy the ride, I never did the first go around....but ever since, most fun.

 

[schweiz]

In the market wizards book, Ed Seykota mentioned "everyone gets what they want from the market". All market participants that I know enter the market to win and not lose. Yet, most of them lose. I'm sure I missed something that Mr Seykota can see.

Can elite traders who can see deeper share your wisdom?

Yes, I think you miss what he means, but you are apparently not the only one on ET.

I think that the personality and subconscious are the major parts he was speaking about. These parts will push you in a direction without you even noticing it. They know what you really want.

Have you never noticed that, depending on with whom you speak, the conversation many times goes in the same direction and ends with, many times, the same subject? Your subconscious filters what is important or interesting for you and focuses on that while pushing all the rest away. So it leads you to what for you is really important.
Sometimes people do, or choose, things without understanding themselves why they did that, or made that choice. These things are mainly a result of their subconscious.

I agree that all people want to be rich and most are not. But that desire is what they wish, not what their subconscious tells. I think that their subconscious is more realistic then what people just wish. If not everybody would win the lottery, as everybody wishes to win that.

 

[schweiz]

"DON'T JUDGE A MAN UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN HIS BOOTS - "

This really very true!
That's the reason why so many discussions on ET end up in a fight. Many people don't even understand what the other one is speaking about. Each person judges on his, and only his, experience.
This is also the reason why I don't discuss anymore on ET. I give my opinion, and that's all. Don't care what others think or say.

 

[Scataphagos]

In the market wizards book, Ed Seykota mentioned "everyone gets what they want from the market". All market participants that I know enter the market to win and not lose. Yet, most of them lose. I'm sure I missed something that Mr Seykota can see.

Can elite traders who can see deeper share your wisdom?

Is that the same as Venezuelans "got the collapsed economy, starvation and inflation they wanted" because they elected Maduro?

Sounds to me like Seykota's full of crap.