What do you do With Someone who just Doesn't
- Thread starter Flashboy
- Start date
Flash,
You don't have to write a public reply to my post but it might give you some food for thought.
Were you an abused child? (Physically or emotionally).
I had a very wealthy but very harsh childhood. Growing up under extremely strict disciplinarians, my entire psyche revolved around being right. Being wrong or admitting a mistake was never even an option.
As you can well imagine, speculative markets did to me what they generally do to people who are terrified of being wrong. With each successive loss, I found myself entrenched deeper and deeper in the kinds of market behavior that you have been talking about in your various threads (and journal). I was mortally afraid of being whipsawed and this made me too eager (and impatient) to pick tops and bottoms. Needless to say, my results were very similar to yours. And I was not trading on a shoestring. In fact, I was trading futures without any leverage i.e. 2 ES contracts with a $100K account.
It took me MANY years and a tremendous amount of psychological pain to confront my fears. I had to hit rock-bottom before I made the discovery of all the uncomfortable physical sensations that arose in me everytime the market started moving towards my stop. Fortunately, with time and patience, I started becoming comfortable with those unpleasant sensations. Eventually, it got to a point where I would actually welcome the onslaught of these feelings as soon as I put on a trade. In time, those same sensations of fear that once had me by the throat, turned into nothing more than mildly ticklish sensations that could not affect my mindset or my behavior.
I hope that your journey to consistent profitability is a successful one. Best of luck to you.
flashboy,
I was reminded of this thread when i came upon a quote in 'the new market wizards' by william eckhardt....
What can a losing trader do to transform himself?
If the trader doesn't know what he's doing that's making him lose, then its hopeless until he can find out what he's doing wrong.
In the case of the trader who knows what he's doing wrong, my advice is decptively simple: He should stop what he is doing wrong.
If he can't change his behavior, he should consider becoming a dogmatic systems trader.
hope reflecting on this can offer some insight. Or perhap, awakening....just like for all of us, its right there in front of you.
I was reminded of this thread when i came upon a quote in 'the new market wizards' by william eckhardt....
What can a losing trader do to transform himself?
If the trader doesn't know what he's doing that's making him lose, then its hopeless until he can find out what he's doing wrong.
In the case of the trader who knows what he's doing wrong, my advice is decptively simple: He should stop what he is doing wrong.
If he can't change his behavior, he should consider becoming a dogmatic systems trader.
hope reflecting on this can offer some insight. Or perhap, awakening....just like for all of us, its right there in front of you.
Hey John,
thanks for the info. and how true and simple it really is when you think about it..
I took a week off from trading to reflect on my behaviour and my responses to trading.. I feel I've made some progress..
and the good news is Like Eckhardt says.. I do know what I am doing wrong.. now its just a matter of whether or not I can stop myself from doing those things while sitting in front of my screen..
pay a bully to sit beside you..if you try to deviate from your (i assume) profitable trading plan..each time..he has to beat you up and you have to pay him a bonus each time
make 2 big cards
one titled MAKE MONEY HERE
list all your rules in your trading plan
the second card titled
LOSE MONEY HERE
list all the wrong things you have been indulging in(this tend to accumulate and needs updating often like some bright ideas created mid session/something you heard/"felt") that you wanna try out...etc....but does not belong under the MAKE MONEY CARD ENTRY
before each trade....be interrogated by the cards
if you still execute a trade following the LOSE MONEY CARD....let the bully beat you up each time.....
best is make sure each time he beat you up.its so bad you have to stop trading for a while...
eventually you might "learn" not to break your rules or better stop trading or you be dead....dead.....DEAD!!!!
you might not be afraid of losing your money to trading maybe losing your life and limb just might do it to break your bad habit
a joke for desperate souls....
or just hire a guy to do/apply electric shock therapy on you each time you deviate from the cards,enough times and you just might finally got it(he gets paid by the number of shock application on you)
*the cards are updated only during off trading hours...never during rth
desperate times calls for desperate measures...
since losing some money alone in that stupid trade wont stop you...you need..ah..more incentive...like getting physically hurt as well as paying the guy for beating you...
are you that desperate enough to win in the markets?! it would really be a darn shame since you got a profitable trading system and cant make use of it anyways....
make 2 big cards
one titled MAKE MONEY HERE
list all your rules in your trading plan
the second card titled
LOSE MONEY HERE
list all the wrong things you have been indulging in(this tend to accumulate and needs updating often like some bright ideas created mid session/something you heard/"felt") that you wanna try out...etc....but does not belong under the MAKE MONEY CARD ENTRY
before each trade....be interrogated by the cards
if you still execute a trade following the LOSE MONEY CARD....let the bully beat you up each time.....
best is make sure each time he beat you up.its so bad you have to stop trading for a while...
eventually you might "learn" not to break your rules or better stop trading or you be dead....dead.....DEAD!!!!
you might not be afraid of losing your money to trading maybe losing your life and limb just might do it to break your bad habit
a joke for desperate souls....
or just hire a guy to do/apply electric shock therapy on you each time you deviate from the cards,enough times and you just might finally got it(he gets paid by the number of shock application on you)
*the cards are updated only during off trading hours...never during rth
desperate times calls for desperate measures...
since losing some money alone in that stupid trade wont stop you...you need..ah..more incentive...like getting physically hurt as well as paying the guy for beating you...
are you that desperate enough to win in the markets?! it would really be a darn shame since you got a profitable trading system and cant make use of it anyways....
Good way to think about it.Quote from marketdancer:
pay a bully to sit beside you..if you try to deviate from your (i assume) profitable trading plan..each time..he has to beat you up and you have to pay him a bonus each time
make 2 big cards
one titled MAKE MONEY HERE
list all your rules in your trading plan
the second card titled
LOSE MONEY HERE
list all the wrong things you have been indulging in(this tend to accumulate and needs updating often like some bright ideas created mid session/something you heard/"felt") that you wanna try out...etc....but does not belong under the MAKE MONEY CARD ENTRY
before each trade....be interrogated by the cards
if you still execute a trade following the LOSE MONEY CARD....let the bully beat you up each time.....
best is make sure each time he beat you up.its so bad you have to stop trading for a while...
eventually you might "learn" not to break your rules or better stop trading or you be dead....dead.....DEAD!!!!
you might not be afraid of losing your money to trading maybe losing your life and limb just might do it to break your bad habit
a joke for desperate souls....
or just hire a guy to do/apply electric shock therapy on you each time you deviate from the cards,enough times and you just might finally got it(he gets paid by the number of shock application on you)
*the cards are updated only during off trading hours...never during rth
desperate times calls for desperate measures...
since losing some money alone in that stupid trade wont stop you...you need..ah..more incentive...like getting physically hurt as well as paying the guy for beating you...
are you that desperate enough to win in the markets?! it would really be a darn shame since you got a profitable trading system and cant make use of it anyways....
But also need to add to this.. is have them beat the hell out of you when you also Do NOT take a trade that is in your plan and meets all your requirements..
Like this morning had the sell signal clicked .. but talked myself out of it.. Had one yesterday afternoon also..
Hi Flash,
I'll give you some friendly nononsense help.
You say:
"I know more about trading now than I ever have before but seem to be losing money faster than ever.."
This is where you are wrong. this should read:
"I still know less about trading than I ought to. This is why I'm losing money faster than ever..
Solution STOP trading till you're sure you know enough about it. Nothing else will do.
Don't feel bad, many suffer from this affliction. Psychologists are only good for psycho's. Traders should know how to care for themselves.
Be good,
nononsense
"I'll give you some friendly nononsense help.
You say:
"I know more about trading now than I ever have before but seem to be losing money faster than ever.."
This is where you are wrong. this should read:
"I still know less about trading than I ought to. This is why I'm losing money faster than ever"
nononsense speaks the truth....for the past 3-4 years, I've considered myself a very, very good technician, (although i suppose i'm not alone in that regard) with a good paper trading track record....predicting price targets on an if/then basis...my bank account tells another, less effusive tale:-(.....i kept wondering how this could be as a shouted a level II...."dont' waste your $$$ on this stock a*hole...you can get it cheaper in 2 days"....AIRT, TASR, IDSA....lost 5K+ on each one of them...i recall almost blowing out a 40K account on ABIX last year, just as it got halted, and thinking "no problem...i'll just put more money in the account because i'm Dave"...i survived that one (actually took home a decent profit)
so, what was missing? RISK MANAGEMENT (entry, exit, $$risk) and "trigger anxiety"
now, every trade (OK, almost every trade)) has risk management built in, and i've begun successfully using an automated-trading platform....on discretionary trades, i check myself "if i were a computer, how would I manage this trade......am i doing that?" if not, i get out as soon as possible
good luck
You say:
"I know more about trading now than I ever have before but seem to be losing money faster than ever.."
This is where you are wrong. this should read:
"I still know less about trading than I ought to. This is why I'm losing money faster than ever"
nononsense speaks the truth....for the past 3-4 years, I've considered myself a very, very good technician, (although i suppose i'm not alone in that regard) with a good paper trading track record....predicting price targets on an if/then basis...my bank account tells another, less effusive tale:-(.....i kept wondering how this could be as a shouted a level II...."dont' waste your $$$ on this stock a*hole...you can get it cheaper in 2 days"....AIRT, TASR, IDSA....lost 5K+ on each one of them...i recall almost blowing out a 40K account on ABIX last year, just as it got halted, and thinking "no problem...i'll just put more money in the account because i'm Dave"...i survived that one (actually took home a decent profit)
so, what was missing? RISK MANAGEMENT (entry, exit, $$risk) and "trigger anxiety"
now, every trade (OK, almost every trade)) has risk management built in, and i've begun successfully using an automated-trading platform....on discretionary trades, i check myself "if i were a computer, how would I manage this trade......am i doing that?" if not, i get out as soon as possible
good luck
Flash,
I recall a thread you posted some time ago where you were clearly devastated!
However you did put yourself together and have pushed it harder to realize now that your results are being worse than ever.
Knowing more about the markets won't help you. Read it many times : " Knowing more about the markets won't help me" until I start to know something about myself!
I believe that, only then, you'll start to see different results.
If you have been doing your task and at the end you don't like the results. STOP doing it !
Address your effort in a different way, to achieve the results you want.
Everytime you fault, don't look to know more about the markets and TA , look to know more about you.
What did you do or what you didn't do in such or such trade?
What? When? How? Why?
Search for the answers before , during and after each trade and respond every one from the inside of your logical being, no the emotional one!
Do yourself a favor and stop trading for some time.
You have a lot to win doing it.
I did.
I recall a thread you posted some time ago where you were clearly devastated!
However you did put yourself together and have pushed it harder to realize now that your results are being worse than ever.
Knowing more about the markets won't help you. Read it many times : " Knowing more about the markets won't help me" until I start to know something about myself!
I believe that, only then, you'll start to see different results.
If you have been doing your task and at the end you don't like the results. STOP doing it !
Address your effort in a different way, to achieve the results you want.
Everytime you fault, don't look to know more about the markets and TA , look to know more about you.
What did you do or what you didn't do in such or such trade?
What? When? How? Why?
Search for the answers before , during and after each trade and respond every one from the inside of your logical being, no the emotional one!
Do yourself a favor and stop trading for some time.
You have a lot to win doing it.
I did.