What Do Reformed Christians Believe?

[JohnnyK]

Quote from Text:


"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." "You were dead through your trespasses and sins." "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

"Flesh" is equivelant in relevancy to structure as I have previously addressed. Not coincidentally, it is the MIND that drives the imbalance of structure, as I have previously addressed in this thread. And a mind set on structure will indeed be hostile to the anatomy of the whole Self, and to God and neighbor. The mind fragments consciousness, while empowering structure...the very definition of separateness and fragmentation. The mind will attempt to snatch control and subvert the mastery of the heart.

You do not know from these texts what "God's law" is. But if it has anything to do with UNITY of all things (ie. the 'Law of One')...then yes, a fragmented mentality won't submit to it.

I have already stated that such fragmentation kills us, and that sin references what we were willing to accept vs what was REAL. And what is REAL is that we ARE LOVE, innocent, perfect, and unified with God, who is also LOVE. The alternative to acceptance is denial...which is what the term 'judgement' is all about. These judgements we've made about ourselves are the 'original sin', create the illusion that we are separated from God.

"Natural " here refers again to the fragmentation of STRUCTURE, vs the unity of the Spirit and the 'Law of One'. This kind of "natural" is not our native state...which is not only native, but also remains still unchanged at the core of our being!

That is the "good news"!

This is folly to you, because as a child of structure, you do not discern this yet from a unified point of view...or from the Heart. Even so, you ARE perfect and innocent at the core of your being at the center of your Heart. This is the 'supernatural' YOU, vs. the "natural" you.

The text has now been decoded. Is it clear?

JohnnyK

 

[stu]

Quote from Aapex:

I'm sorry that you feel that way. There is nothing that I can say or do that would make you change your point of view.
However, the purpose of this thread is to discuss what YOU believe and why YOU believe it
Would you mind explaining what problems you have with the text?

I don't agree. There is plenty you could say and do.

For one, you could stop pretending the Bible doesn't say the things it does say. As was the case in our previous contratent ( that's yer actual franchois ) in another thread.

For another, you could desist from using Scripture - bad argument - in support of Scripture - bad reasoning. Using the perfidious and mendacious text of the Bible to try and support the inhumane and corrupt "teachings" of the Bible, does not help toward any kind of meaningful understanding.. You are simply insulting folks intelligence with it all, which may have worked 2000 or even 200 years ago, but is not good enough for today.

Quote from Aapex:

I would rather reason with you from the text of Scripture and allow Scripture to speak for itself.

Your method of reasoning is to post page after page of more and more Scripture.. Your reasoning for Scripture is Scripture.
But for you to reason with me, you will have to reason why it is at all useful or acceptable for the inconsistencies, violence, depravation and deceit the Bible "teaches" , to in any way be worthy as explanation rather than culpability for the contradictory, untrustworthy, corrupt, vicious sinful dishonesty of the God the Bible contains.

 

[Aapex]

Quote from JohnnyK:

"Flesh" is equivelant in relevancy to structure as I have previously addressed. Not coincidentally, it is the MIND that drives the imbalance of structure, as I have previously addressed in this thread. And a mind set on structure will indeed be hostile to the anatomy of the whole Self, and to God and neighbor. The mind fragments consciousness, while empowering structure...the very definition of separateness and fragmentation. The mind will attempt to snatch control and subvert the mastery of the heart.

You do not know from these texts what "God's law" is. But if it has anything to do with UNITY of all things (ie. the 'Law of One')...then yes, a fragmented mentality won't submit to it.

I have already stated that such fragmentation kills us, and that sin references what we were willing to accept vs what was REAL. And what is REAL is that we ARE LOVE, innocent, perfect, and unified with God, who is also LOVE. The alternative to acceptance is denial...which is what the term 'judgement' is all about. These judgements we've made about ourselves are the 'original sin', create the illusion that we are separated from God.

"Natural " here refers again to the fragmentation of STRUCTURE, vs the unity of the Spirit and the 'Law of One'. This kind of "natural" is not our native state...which is not only native, but also remains still unchanged at the core of our being!

That is the "good news"!

This is folly to you, because as a child of structure, you do not discern this yet from a unified point of view...or from the Heart. Even so, you ARE perfect and innocent at the core of your being at the center of your Heart. This is the 'supernatural' YOU, vs. the "natural" you.

The text has now been decoded. Is it clear?

JohnnyK

ok, so you are now contridicting the text and attempting to add your own commentary.

 

[Aapex]

Quote from stu:

I don't agree. There is plenty you could say and do.

For one, you could stop pretending the Bible doesn't say the things it does say. As was the case in our previous contratent ( that's yer actual franchois ) in another thread.

For another, you could desist from using Scripture - bad argument - in support of Scripture - bad reasoning. Using the perfidious and mendacious text of the Bible to try and support the inhumane and corrupt "teachings" of the Bible, does not help toward any kind of meaningful understanding.. You are simply insulting folks intelligence with it all, which may have worked 2000 or even 200 years ago, but is not good enough for today.Your method of reasoning is to post page after page of more and more Scripture.. Your reasoning for Scripture is Scripture.
But for you to reason with me, you will have to reason why it is at all useful or acceptable for the inconsistencies, violence, depravation and deceit the Bible "teaches" , to in any way be worthy as explanation rather than culpability for the contradictory, untrustworthy, corrupt, vicious sinful dishonesty of the God the Bible contains.

Because I believe that the Bible is divine rather than human in origin I can not reason with you apart from it. I believe that the Bible is the word of God and you don't so it makes no sense attempting to reason with you apart from it. Unless you can prove WHY you believe that the Bible is not the word of God using Scripture then we really do not have anything more to discuss. This thread is about what Reform Christians believe and why we believe it. Not about debait and persecution of Reform Christians beliefs.

Unless we can have civil discouse about the Text of Scripture then we have exhausted ourselves of this discussion.

I'd like to speak with those that sincerely want to understand what we believe and why we believe it.

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from Aapex:

ok, so you are now contridicting the text and attempting to add your own commentary.

Yes, it's my commentary...and it contradicts your commentary...not the text.

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from Aapex:


I'd like to speak with those that sincerely want to understand what we believe and why we believe it.

Can I just bypass all that and sign on the dotted line?

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from Aapex:



I'd like to speak with those that sincerely want to understand what we believe and why we believe it.

Ok, so you believe you are totally depraved. Why do you believe that?

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from JohnnyK:



I hang with an interesting crowd, and it came to my attention over the weekend that one of the players in the group is the reincarnated Paul. Considering the source of this info (not him)...and having had a spirited conversation with him about some deep issues, I tend to agree it is a distinct possibility...including also the signs of the times.

Perhaps I could get him to join this debate. Would you like the apostle Paul to join this thread?
JohnnyK

yes.

may i consult with the apostle on such carnal matters as the future path of US equities, perhaps oil ? i await his reply.

surfer

 

[jem]

Aapex I could you post sciptual support for the fact that the names were preordained and have nothing to do with a humans reponse to grace.

Personally I find the whole calvanist arianism argument to be silly in light of the fact that God is probably not subject to a human beings perception of time. If God is outside time than this preordained stuff is by definition meaningless.

And being omnipotent God would know who was saved before that person was born. But that does not mean the person had no liberty to choose to repond to the holy spirit's call.

So which passages of the bible indicate to a calivinist that man does not have any chocie in responding to God's call.

P.S. Johnny K if your friend is better than bach or beethoven send me some tracks. I know some people in the record industry with major distribution.

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from marketsurfer:

yes.

may i consult with the apostle on such carnal matters as the future path of US equities, perhaps oil ? i await his reply.

surfer

He only knows about the golden age to come!