What Do Reformed Christians Believe?

Quote from JohnnyK:

Structure is the potential problem here. There was an exodus from structure among the purists...only to embrace more structure?

The bible is another form of structure. Useful as a servant, cruel as a master. Anyone mastered by structure will become rigid and, er...structural...legalistic, etc.

A mind governed by structure will read the bible one way, while a mind that is governed by the heart will read it another way.
A mind will exibit dualistic tendencies, and will seek to control what it does not understand. It does not feel. It divides to make comparisons. It labels. It identifies. When it is allowed to identify ourselves, all hell breaks loose.

When the heart is allowed to govern, and the mind willing to assist within it's capacity, the structure of the bible can assist and not rule cruelly.
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Finally, a legitamate concern.:)

Thank you for your reply,
Structure is not the problem. The problem is sinful men that refuse to teach what the Bible teaches. Because they have problems with certain passages of Scripture that speaks out against what they practise - THEY ARE OUTRAGED!

Instead of allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture they philosophy & theorize their way through it. They even go so far as to tear out the pages that they have trouble with or re-write Scripture in their own words.:(
 
Quote from JohnnyK:

In 1994, Jesus told the story of Judas from his perspective to Glenda Green, an artist, as he sat daily for four months while she painted his picture.

His version does indeed echo this new version of the story that has been unearthed recently.

As I recall the main points of his version:

a. Judas was a childhood friend from a wealthy family nearby.
b. Judas was a child of 'structure', and exibited it's way of thinking.
c. Growing up, Judas sharpened Jesus teaching abilities by debating with him, challenging his wisdom, and showing him just how many ways simple things can be misunderstood by minds devoted to structure.
d. Judas was included in Jesus circle by divine plan, at the request of the Father.
e. Judas was convinced that Jesus was the Messiah.
f. However, Judas' expectations of a Messiah aligned more with structured thought processes.
g. Judas' became impatient with Jesus rather non political approach.
h. Judas' sought, in his own way, to finally bring Jesus to power.
i. Judas knew Jesus had the ability to escape any trap, and thereby show his power.
j. Thinking structurally, Judas never considered that Jesus would just choose to surrender.
k. Judas was from a wealthy family, and would not have accepted payment, or else would have donated the money to charity.
l. Jesus has long since forgiven Judas.
m. As of 1994, Judas had not yet come to terms with it, and remained a child of structure.
n. If Judas ever did come to terms with what really happened, it would affect a significant shift in the world that is still in the grips of structure.
o. We may have some influence on Judas, simply by feeling love instead of condemnation for him.
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I already dealt with that here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67016&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

The Judas writings were not written by Judas but rather by a Judas.
Just because a book is ancient does not make it the Gospel.
The Book of Judas is no more the Gospel than Hamlet.
 
Quote from maxpi:

I sure don't have to worry about structure. I learned that when the Bible says things like "Let the Holy Spirit be your teacher" that if you just do that, after a few decades you know way more and will have experienced way more than these intellectual guys that won't go see what's up when you tell them about it.
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Can you show me where it says that in the Bible?
 
Quote from maxpi:

Ok, I am back on topic now. I have experience with one Reformed Christian so far. I would say they believe that anybody that does not play the game exactly the way they want is a cult member and not born again.

I guess I stand accused of nonconforming, like the people mentioned in the opening paragraphs of this boring cut/paste job.

I really am still looking for that one church, it doesn't have to be a big denomination even, with lots of money and property all over the place and billions in the bank because so many people died and left property to them so many centuries ago. Just a little odd denomination would do it for me..... that one church that is capable of getting a pencil out and going through the bible and writing down what Christians are supposed to do and when they get to James... it can't be a church that says "oh shit, that can't be what it says" and just goes on with life like it never happened. And no accusers, that is one of the devil's nicknames, no accusers please, like the one Reformed Christian memeber I have history with, accused me of being not born again and a cult guy. NO CULTS of course, I don't want to be in a cult, the leaders always want all your money then your women, usually in that order too because cult leaders are flakes that could not find a job or their sad ass with both hands. Somebody tries to take my woman and I will show them what circumcision is about for sure and the wallet is off limits until I say so and you better ask nicely. Yessir, no cults for me, ever. Cults really suck. I read up on them, they all have a problem with the trinity. It's never "Jesus was God incarnate and he died for my sins and also he now reigns in heaven", too simple for them, they need to complicate it.

Did I stay on topic?? Jeez, with the mass cut/paste job how could I be off topic, I am sure that what I am saying is in there somewhere.
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It is not about finding a Church as much as it is about finding God.
If you believe the Gospel and repent of your sins and trust Christ for your eternal salvation then you have eternal life. Christ will lead you to a healthy well balanced Church that preaches the Gospel. If you are truly concerned I can help point you to a local Church in your area.
 
Quote from Aapex:

THE EVIDENCE FOR CHRIST’S RESURRECTIONIt’s often said that the validity of Christianity rests upon the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But how do we know Jesus rose from the dead?
after all, would anyone really suffer and die for a cause that they knew to be a lie? It is conceivable that someone may die for the truth, but inconceivable that hundred’s of his follower’s would, in fact, be willing to die for what they knew to be a lie.

All this leads us to only one possibility — that Jesus indeed rose from the dead, and lives to be our Lord and our Savior (cf. Rev. 1:18)!
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Hey, trainr's back to save us from our sinful ways!

I already covered that here:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...535&perpage=20&highlight=manson&pagenumber=20

Harold
 
So you can point someone to a local church in their area?

Good thing you are not proselytizing.....

Nah, you aren't pushing your religion on others, you aren't recruiting, nope, not at all, not one bit, no way.....

Quote from Aapex:

It is not about finding a Church as much as it is about finding God.
If you believe the Gospel and repent of your sins and trust Christ for your eternal salvation then you have eternal life. Christ will lead you to a healthy well balanced Church that preaches the Gospel. If you are truly concerned I can help point you to a local Church in your area.
More...
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

So you can point someone to a local church in their area?

Good thing you are not proselytizing.....

Nah, you aren't pushing your religion on others, you aren't recruiting, nope, not at all, not one bit, no way.....
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So I guess your not pushing your non-belief either huh?

To believe that there is no God is a "belief".
What is YOUR belief?

Oh, be carefull because the moment you tell me your proselytizing me.

Let's stay on topic.

either you have some valid questions or your really not interested?
if so then just move on to another thread.
 
Quote from Aapex:

Finally, a legitamate concern.:)

Thank you for your reply,
Structure is not the problem. The problem is sinful men that refuse to teach what the Bible teaches. Because they have problems with certain passages of Scripture that speaks out against what they practise - THEY ARE OUTRAGED!

Instead of allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture they philosophy & theorize their way through it. They even go so far as to tear out the pages that they have trouble with or re-write Scripture in their own words.:(
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The Bible is contradictory, untrustworthy, corrupt, violent , and dishonest, packed with story after story of a mean spirited God's inhumanity to man..
Suggesting Scripture should interpret Scripture is like asking a paedophile to explain the details of child abuse .
Your agenda is to label sinful those who would speak against any of the many passages of delinquent Scripture which contravene decent behavior and with which you've swamped the place. Refusing to accept the atrociousness described within the Bible is seen generally as more a propriety by less "sinful" men..
 
Quote from Aapex:

I already covered that here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67016&perpage=6&pagenumber=2


Now that you have given your opinion where is the Scripture to back you up???

Calvinism is NOT blasphemy. Calvinism is the BIBLE!
All John Calvin did was read Scripture and quote what the BIBLE already taught. If you don't like it then your problem is with GOD and his HOLY WORD the BIBLE.
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The main beef against calvinism is the belief that God predestined certain people to be "elect"; in normal words, calvinists believe that God dictated who will be saved before that person was even born. Now, that in itself is not so radical when you stop to consider how God sees time. But what is outragous is how calvinists believe that man has no free will in the matter. I.e., man does not choose to follow God, God predestines man to follow God and be saved. So they believe that it's not: "Because you have faith in God and follow his ways, God will have mercy on you and save you." Instead, they believe it's: "Because God chose you, you will serve God and be saved."

If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize, seek to be saved, or even follow God's path?
Your traditional Calvinist would proclaim, "Because God told us so!" But if God has already elected those who will be going to heaven, no amount of influence from Christians will change who is elected or not. Evangelism may be the means of how God saves the elect, but our conscience decision to not evangelize will not affect the elect.
The interesting counter-argument would be when Calvinists say to non-Calvinists, "But why bother evangelizing... God already knows if a particular person will ever accept the message or not." But, as will be discussed below, this is argument is a fallacy due to the lack of comprehension of time.
If God predestined everything, then there is no use in praying for your friends or family.
Basically, God has already predestined the events and no appealing to God will likely change his mind- it has already been predestined and cannot be changed.
If God predestined everything, then God created sin.
This is where Calvinists disagree among themselves. There are several camps; some that believe every little detail has been predestined, those who believe that God predestined all major events (including salvation), and those who believe that God only predestines those who will be saved. I suppose this point would address the first camp; If indeed God did predestined every little thing, then God did create sin. He caused man to act a specific way knowing in advance what it would lead to.
If man is totally incapable of good, then man cannot truly be remorseful or repentant.
If man is totally incapable of good, then man cannot be faulted for his sins.
If God predestined everything, then there is no such thing as randomness. (Now that's an interesting research topic..)
If God predestined everything, then why eternally condemn the non-elect? After all, it is not their fault.. they were predestined to be damned!
This concept is called double-predestination. The logic is rather simple: if God only allows the elect to be saved, and God predestined the elect, then by default, God predestined everyone else who is not elect to be eternally condemned.
Most Calvinists believe it, but there are quite a few who don't. Thomas Aquinas' view was that God does not in fact damn those whose inherent sin would normally be condemning; God simply "passes over" those who he chose to not predestine. While this view is also somewhat arrogant, (how arrogant it is for us to believe we were predestined while our neighbor might not be), it simply doesn't make sense. The bible clearly states otherwise.
(never mind that little verse that says "whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life")
Jesus died for everyone, not just the elect.
Calvinists would point out verses such as John 10:11, Acts 20:28, and John 15:13-14, which states that Jesus died for his friends. However, Jesus promptly then states that we are his friends if we obey his commands. Clearly, though, Jesus died for everyone. Verses decribe Jesus as the savior of the world, the savior of all men, and etc. Specifically, 1 John 2:2, which states that "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
Once-saved-always-saved is a farce
One only has to read the very last two verses of James (James 5:19-20) to see why. "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. "
Your confused calvinists typically don't have a response to verses like these other than to falsely argue that "well, the sinner must not have ever really been born from above to begin with."
It is not unfeasible for someone to be whole-heartedly devoted to God for a majority of their lifetime and then suddenly snap and turn totally against God in his heart. For example, suppose Billy Graham were to all of a sudden denounce God and start worshiping Satan. Calvinists would suggest that Billy Graham must not have ever have been saved whereas any other rational person would say that he once was a great man of faith whose heart was totally devoted to God but then suddenly snapped.
 
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