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What Do Reformed Christians Believe?
- Thread starter Aapex
- Start date
The Bible says simple people [not inferring anything] can understand Him. Why the 10 page cut/paste job and accusations, and non-answering of simple questions? I am sad.. it won't last though. 
Quote from Aapex:
I want to clear up some misunderstanding about religion on these boards.
God has already determined whom will be saved and those that believe are the chosen remnant or "seed of Abraham".
For not all that are of Abraham are of Abraham. But only those that believe the Gospel are saved.
.
this statement is considered BLASPHEMY by all mainstream christian denominations today. it teaches that only some men have their names written down in the book (elected)of life and there is nothing those that are not elect do can change their fate. of course all calvinists believe their name is written in the book.
the one basic tenant of true christianity is that ALL men can come to god if they repent, believe and sin no more.
here is some information on the twisted beliefs of the calvinists.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/calvinism.htm
Belief systems within Christianity:
CALVINISM
Quotation:
"God preordained...a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation. " John Calvin
What is Calvinism:
It is a series of theological beliefs first promoted by John Calvin (1509-1564), one of the leaders of the Protestant reformation. They were affirmed by the Synod of Dordt (1618-1619 CE) as being the doctrine of salvation which is contained in the Bible. It laid the foundation for Reformed Theology.
Calvinism is often summarized by The Five Points of Calvinism, which are easy to recall by using the acrostic "TULIP:"
T: This usually stands for "Total depravity:" This is often mistaken to mean that humans are all hopelessly, intensely sinful. Actually, it means something quite different: as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience to God -- the Fall of Man -- sin has extended to all parts of every person's being: "his thinking, his emotions and his will." 1
Sometimes, this has been called "Total inability." This is the concept that it is impossible for the ordinary "natural" human to understand the Gospel's message. They are spiritually helpless. First, God must first decide to intervene in the form of the third personality within the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the person is lost forever.
See: Romans 5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (KJV)
Mark 4:11: "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables."
U: This stands for "Unconditional Election." This is the concept of predestination: that God has divided humanity into two groups. One group is "the elected." It includes all those whom God has chosen to make knowledgeable about himself. The rest will remain ignorant of God, and the Gospel. They are damned and will spend eternity in Hell without any hope of mercy or cessation of the extreme tortures. God made this selection before the universe was created, and thus before any humans existed. The ground or grounds that God uses to select the lucky few is unknown. What is known is that it is not through any good works on the part of the individual. It is not that he extends knowledge to some in order to find out who will accept salvation and who will not.
(more)
http://www.christiantrumpetsounding.com/predes.htm
Calvinism is blasphemy. It blasphemes Godâs holy name His character. Calvin is well known for teaching the predestination of a few to eternal life and the foreordained damnation of billions. How appalling! The tenets buttressing Calvinâs predestination are not common knowledge. These Five Points of Calvinism are more than appalling. They are absolutely abominable.
(more)
http://www.geocities.com/calvinismheresy/calvinismmain.html
Calvinism -
A Blasphemous Heresy
Structure is the potential problem here. There was an exodus from structure among the purists...only to embrace more structure?
The bible is another form of structure. Useful as a servant, cruel as a master. Anyone mastered by structure will become rigid and, er...structural...legalistic, etc.
A mind governed by structure will read the bible one way, while a mind that is governed by the heart will read it another way.
A mind will exibit dualistic tendencies, and will seek to control what it does not understand. It does not feel. It divides to make comparisons. It labels. It identifies. When it is allowed to identify ourselves, all hell breaks loose.
When the heart is allowed to govern, and the mind willing to assist within it's capacity, the structure of the bible can assist and not rule cruelly.
The bible is another form of structure. Useful as a servant, cruel as a master. Anyone mastered by structure will become rigid and, er...structural...legalistic, etc.
A mind governed by structure will read the bible one way, while a mind that is governed by the heart will read it another way.
A mind will exibit dualistic tendencies, and will seek to control what it does not understand. It does not feel. It divides to make comparisons. It labels. It identifies. When it is allowed to identify ourselves, all hell breaks loose.
When the heart is allowed to govern, and the mind willing to assist within it's capacity, the structure of the bible can assist and not rule cruelly.
The Gospel of Judas
Lost for centuries and bound for controversy, the so-called gospel of Judas was unveiled by scholars Thursday. With a plot twist worthy of The Da Vinci Code, the gospel - 13 papyrus pages bound in leather and found in a cave in Egypt - purports to relate the last days of Jesus' life, seen from the viewpoint of Judas, one of Jesus' first followers.
The gospel "is an intriguing alternative view of the relationship between Jesus and Judas," Emmel said. It also has Jesus relating a new creation myth and account of humankind's origins to Judas, which suggest God didn't create the world, contrary to conventional Christian belief.
The key passage has Jesus telling Judas "'you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me,'" Emmel said. The passage reflects the view that material things and the body are traps for the inner soul and also suggests a form of mysticism found in some early Jewish thought, said team adviser Marvin Meyer of Chapman University in Orange, Calif.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20...vXaB2YD;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--
Lost for centuries and bound for controversy, the so-called gospel of Judas was unveiled by scholars Thursday. With a plot twist worthy of The Da Vinci Code, the gospel - 13 papyrus pages bound in leather and found in a cave in Egypt - purports to relate the last days of Jesus' life, seen from the viewpoint of Judas, one of Jesus' first followers.
The gospel "is an intriguing alternative view of the relationship between Jesus and Judas," Emmel said. It also has Jesus relating a new creation myth and account of humankind's origins to Judas, which suggest God didn't create the world, contrary to conventional Christian belief.
The key passage has Jesus telling Judas "'you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me,'" Emmel said. The passage reflects the view that material things and the body are traps for the inner soul and also suggests a form of mysticism found in some early Jewish thought, said team adviser Marvin Meyer of Chapman University in Orange, Calif.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20...vXaB2YD;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--
In 1994, Jesus told the story of Judas from his perspective to Glenda Green, an artist, as he sat daily for four months while she painted his picture.
His version does indeed echo this new version of the story that has been unearthed recently.
As I recall the main points of his version:
a. Judas was a childhood friend from a wealthy family nearby.
b. Judas was a child of 'structure', and exibited it's way of thinking.
c. Growing up, Judas sharpened Jesus teaching abilities by debating with him, challenging his wisdom, and showing him just how many ways simple things can be misunderstood by minds devoted to structure.
d. Judas was included in Jesus circle by divine plan, at the request of the Father.
e. Judas was convinced that Jesus was the Messiah.
f. However, Judas' expectations of a Messiah aligned more with structured thought processes.
g. Judas' became impatient with Jesus rather non political approach.
h. Judas' sought, in his own way, to finally bring Jesus to power.
i. Judas knew Jesus had the ability to escape any trap, and thereby show his power.
j. Thinking structurally, Judas never considered that Jesus would just choose to surrender.
k. Judas was from a wealthy family, and would not have accepted payment, or else would have donated the money to charity.
l. Jesus has long since forgiven Judas.
m. As of 1994, Judas had not yet come to terms with it, and remained a child of structure.
n. If Judas ever did come to terms with what really happened, it would affect a significant shift in the world that is still in the grips of structure.
o. We may have some influence on Judas, simply by feeling love instead of condemnation for him.
His version does indeed echo this new version of the story that has been unearthed recently.
As I recall the main points of his version:
a. Judas was a childhood friend from a wealthy family nearby.
b. Judas was a child of 'structure', and exibited it's way of thinking.
c. Growing up, Judas sharpened Jesus teaching abilities by debating with him, challenging his wisdom, and showing him just how many ways simple things can be misunderstood by minds devoted to structure.
d. Judas was included in Jesus circle by divine plan, at the request of the Father.
e. Judas was convinced that Jesus was the Messiah.
f. However, Judas' expectations of a Messiah aligned more with structured thought processes.
g. Judas' became impatient with Jesus rather non political approach.
h. Judas' sought, in his own way, to finally bring Jesus to power.
i. Judas knew Jesus had the ability to escape any trap, and thereby show his power.
j. Thinking structurally, Judas never considered that Jesus would just choose to surrender.
k. Judas was from a wealthy family, and would not have accepted payment, or else would have donated the money to charity.
l. Jesus has long since forgiven Judas.
m. As of 1994, Judas had not yet come to terms with it, and remained a child of structure.
n. If Judas ever did come to terms with what really happened, it would affect a significant shift in the world that is still in the grips of structure.
o. We may have some influence on Judas, simply by feeling love instead of condemnation for him.
I sure don't have to worry about structure. I learned that when the Bible says things like "Let the Holy Spirit be your teacher" that if you just do that, after a few decades you know way more and will have experienced way more than these intellectual guys that won't go see what's up when you tell them about it.
Quote from maxpi:
I sure don't have to worry about structure. I learned that when the Bible says things like "Let the Holy Spirit be your teacher" that if you just do that, after a few decades you know way more and will have experienced way more than these intellectual guys that won't go see what's up when you tell them about it.
Excellent! The lesson of the Holy Spirit, first of all, is inclusion. The parable/visual that teaches that is the concept of sheep who always include any other sheep who wish to graze with them. The Holy Spirit contains and includes all reality and embraces all beingness. There is nothing that exists apart from the Holy Spirit. It is a lesson about unity, and wholeness. The Spirit encompasses and connects all that is. You will recognize this as a very 'native american' way of thinking. You will recognize violations of unity easily among the religions that seek always to exclude in favor of an elite group.
The implications become obvious for those who prefer to think fragmentally and devisively. Denial of some part of reality is a common mistake and results in separated mindsets that create structures that ultimately trap. A structure is, after all, a separation of one thing from another, made more and more solid by a stronger belief is separation. Crucifixtion is when we as spirit become trapped in the structure of bodies...or perhaps when our minds become trapped between the separated letters, pages and covers of a book. Ressurrection is about regaining freedom even while within the body. Ascension is about choosing to take leave of the body without the need of 'death'. All structure is subject to death according to the laws of entropy. Time is simply structure attempting to survive. An alter ego, a fictional identity of self, is also a structure. Fictional identifications about self are what trap us in bodies that die. Death ends up being a clearing house for useless identities.
You can see then that death can be overcome by a correct identification of your Self, having 'died' to the alter ego you thought was your self.
Word to the wise: structure, and the mindset that builds it, may be more an insidious problem/challenge than you at first estimate. Structure is extremely deceptive.
JohnnyK
Quote from JohnnyK:
j. Thinking structurally, Judas never considered that Jesus would just choose to surrender.
Thus it was Judas who was betrayed by, and hurt by, structure, as we all are when we approach love with such a mindset. We can be blindsided, confused, upset. Allegience to structure is ultimately suicide. We follow in Judas footsteps when we approach life in the same way. Watch how people give power over to governmental structures. Watch how people die. Watchhow people interpret the bible. Watch how they die. Watch how people give power to religions that ultimately betray them as the structure attempts to survive. Watch how people attempt to empower/'lift up' Jesus from a structured point of view...even those who believe in him like Judas! What has Jesus ever done with this approach? Surrender....the thing you least expect.
So it would not be surprising that Jesus might have considered Judas the greatest...having taught an invaluable lesson to all of us, at his own expense.
Quote from vhehn:
this statement is considered BLASPHEMY by all mainstream christian denominations today. it teaches that only some men have their names written down in the book (elected)of life and there is nothing those that are not elect do can change their fate. of course all calvinists believe their name is written in the book.
the one basic tenant of true christianity is that ALL men can come to god if they repent, believe and sin no more.
here is some information on the twisted beliefs of the calvinists.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/calvinism.htm
Belief systems within Christianity:
CALVINISM
Quotation:
"God preordained...a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation. " John Calvin
What is Calvinism:
It is a series of theological beliefs first promoted by John Calvin (1509-1564), one of the leaders of the Protestant reformation. They were affirmed by the Synod of Dordt (1618-1619 CE) as being the doctrine of salvation which is contained in the Bible. It laid the foundation for Reformed Theology.
Calvinism is often summarized by The Five Points of Calvinism, which are easy to recall by using the acrostic "TULIP:"
T: This usually stands for "Total depravity:" This is often mistaken to mean that humans are all hopelessly, intensely sinful. Actually, it means something quite different: as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience to God -- the Fall of Man -- sin has extended to all parts of every person's being: "his thinking, his emotions and his will." 1
Sometimes, this has been called "Total inability." This is the concept that it is impossible for the ordinary "natural" human to understand the Gospel's message. They are spiritually helpless. First, God must first decide to intervene in the form of the third personality within the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the person is lost forever.
See: Romans 5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (KJV)
Mark 4:11: "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables."
U: This stands for "Unconditional Election." This is the concept of predestination: that God has divided humanity into two groups. One group is "the elected." It includes all those whom God has chosen to make knowledgeable about himself. The rest will remain ignorant of God, and the Gospel. They are damned and will spend eternity in Hell without any hope of mercy or cessation of the extreme tortures. God made this selection before the universe was created, and thus before any humans existed. The ground or grounds that God uses to select the lucky few is unknown. What is known is that it is not through any good works on the part of the individual. It is not that he extends knowledge to some in order to find out who will accept salvation and who will not.
(more)
http://www.christiantrumpetsounding.com/predes.htm
Calvinism is blasphemy. It blasphemes Godâs holy name His character. Calvin is well known for teaching the predestination of a few to eternal life and the foreordained damnation of billions. How appalling! The tenets buttressing Calvinâs predestination are not common knowledge. These Five Points of Calvinism are more than appalling. They are absolutely abominable.
(more)
http://www.geocities.com/calvinismheresy/calvinismmain.html
Calvinism -
A Blasphemous Heresy
I already covered that here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67016&perpage=6&pagenumber=2
Now that you have given your opinion where is the Scripture to back you up???
Calvinism is NOT blasphemy. Calvinism is the BIBLE!
All John Calvin did was read Scripture and quote what the BIBLE already taught. If you don't like it then your problem is with GOD and his HOLY WORD the BIBLE.