What do Hillary supporters think they are voting for?

According to what I read Epstein was only convicted once for solicitation of an underage prostitute. All else are allegations and what some people claimed but material that was either not admissible in court or deemed too weak an evidence to lead to convictions. I am not saying that Epstein is an angel but vilifying him as a pedophile is ridiculous.

Prude America has no issue to let police men who shoot and kill unarmed citizens go free but a guy who had sex with a prostitute who happened to be under age brand marks one for life. I am happy to stand corrected but ONLY on court convictions. Judging someone as a pedophile based on people who have a monetary interest and motivation in accusing others and tabloid stories is not anything that society should accept as evidence that someone committed a crime. A conviction or proof beyond any doubt is evidence but not an accusation.

It is ridiculous to now insinuate that half of Hollywood and Washington DC is into children just because they associated with Epstein. Normal people have to be repeated under age sex offenders to be brand marked as such and be registered as pedophiles but here it seems a guy who has done more in terms of donating to good causes than most anyone else is vilified because he solicited a hooker who happened to be under age. Not saying this is not a crime, but I am talking about relativity here.

Do I have to hold your hand for everything?

This is not the first lawsuit regarding underage girls at Epstein's residences.

Epstein settled a previous one in Florida.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#cite_note-lewis-48
"Epstein has so far made 17 out-of-court settlements, and some cases are ongoing."
 
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According to what I read Epstein was only convicted once for solicitation of an underage prostitute. All else are allegations and what some people claimed but material that was either not admissible in court or deemed too weak an evidence to lead to convictions. I am not saying that Epstein is an angel but vilifying him as a pedophile is ridiculous.

Prude America has no issue to let police men who shoot and kill unarmed citizens go free but a guy who had sex with a prostitute who happened to be under age brand marks one for life. I am happy to stand corrected but ONLY on court convictions. Judging someone as a pedophile based on people who have a monetary interest and motivation in accusing others and tabloid stories is not anything that society should accept as evidence that someone committed a crime. A conviction or proof beyond any doubt is evidence but not an accusation.

It is ridiculous to now insinuate that half of Hollywood and Washington DC is into children just because they associated with Epstein. Normal people have to be repeated under age sex offenders to be brand marked as such and be registered as pedophiles but here it seems a guy who has done more in terms of donating to good causes than most anyone else is vilified because he solicited a hooker who happened to be under age. Not saying this is not a crime, but I am talking about relativity here.

Dozens of victims... a long term continual pattern of pedophile behavior. This is not about a single incident with "a hooker who happened to be under age".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#Solicitation_of_prostitution

In March 2005, a woman contacted Palm Beach police and alleged her 14-year-old daughter had been taken to Jeffrey Epstein's mansion by an older girl and paid $300 after stripping and massaging him.[11] She had undressed, but left on her underwear.[20]

Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and seventeen witnesses under oath, a high-school transcript and other items they found in Epstein's trash and home allegedly showed that some girls were under 18.[21] A search of Epstein's home found large numbers of photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom had been interviewed earlier by the police.[20] Papers filed in 2006 state that Epstein installed concealed cameras in numerous places in his property to record the rape of sexually trafficked minors by prominent people for criminal purposes such as blackmail.[22]

Epstein had set up a system of young women recruiting other women for his massage services.[11] Two housekeepers stated to the police that Epstein would receive "massages" every day whenever he stayed in Palm Beach.[20] In May 2006, Palm Beach police filed a probable cause affidavit saying that Epstein should be charged with four counts of unlawful sex with minors and one molestation count.[20] His team of lawyers included Gerald Lefcourt, Alan Dershowitz and later Ken Starr.[11] Epstein passed a lie detector test in which he was asked whether he knew of the underage status of the girls—although lie detector tests are generally not admissible in a court of law.[23][24]

Instead of following police recommendation, the prosecutors considered the evidence weak[23] and presented it to a grand jury. Former chief of Palm Beach police Michael Reiter later wrote to State Attorney Barry Krischer to complain of the state's "highly unusual" conduct and asked him to remove himself from the case.[11] The grand jury returned only a single charge of felony solicitation of prostitution,[25] to which Epstein pleaded not guilty in August 2006.[26]

In June 2008, after pleading guilty to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14,[27] Epstein began serving an 18-month sentence. He served 13 months, and upon release became a registered sex offender.[3][28] There is widespread controversy and suspicion that Epstein got off lightly.[29]

After the accusations became public, several parties returned donations they had received from Epstein, including Eliot Spitzer, Bill Richardson,[12] and the Palm Beach Police Department.[21] Harvard announced that it would not return any money.[12] A range of charitable donations Epstein had made financing children's education were also brought into question.[27]

On June 18, 2010, Epstein's former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, was sentenced to 18 months in jail for trying to sell a journal that he said recorded Epstein's activities. FBI Special Agent Christina Pryor reviewed the material and agreed it was information "that would have been extremely useful in investigating and prosecuting the case, including names and contact information of material witnesses and additional victims."[30][31] Epstein allegedly lent girls to powerful people to ingratiate himself with them and also to get possible blackmail information.[29]

In January 2015, a 31-year-old American woman, Virginia Roberts, alleged in a sworn affidavit that at the age of 17, she had been employed by Epstein as a sex slave and he trafficked her to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz. She claimed that Epstein and others had physically and sexually abused her.[32]

She alleged that the FBI may have been involved in a cover-up.[33] Roberts said she served as Epstein's sex slave from 1999 to 2002, recruiting other girls.[34] Prince Andrew, Epstein and Dershowitz all deny having sex with Roberts, and Dershowitz is taking legal action over the allegations.[35][36][37] A diary purported to belong to Roberts was published online.[38][39]

The BBC television series Panorama planned an investigation of the scandal.[40] As of early 2015 no law court had tested these claims.[41]

On April 7, 2015, Judge Kenneth Marra ruled that the allegations made by Roberts against Prince Andrew had no bearing on the aim of the lawsuit to reopen Epstein's non-prosecution agreement and should be struck from the record.[42] Judge Marra made no ruling as to whether claims by Roberts are true or false.[43] Marra specifically stated that Roberts may later give evidence when the case comes to court.[44]

Civil lawsuits
On February 6, 2008, an anonymous Virginia woman filed a $50 million civil lawsuit[45] in federal court against Epstein, alleging that when she was a 16-year-old minor in 2004–2005, she was "recruited to give Epstein a massage." She claims she was taken to his mansion, where he exposed himself and had sexual intercourse with her, and paid her $200 immediately afterward.[25] A similar $50 million suit was filed by a different woman in March 2008, who was represented by the same lawyer.[46] Several of these lawsuits were dismissed, and all other lawsuits were settled out of court.[47] Epstein has so far made 17 out-of-court settlements, and some cases are ongoing.[48] A December 30, 2014 federal civil suit was filed in Florida against the United States for violations of the Crime Victims' Rights Act in agreeing to the 2008 plea; it accuses Dershowitz of sexually abusing a minor provided by Epstein.[49] (See Two Jane Does v. United States.) The allegations against Dershowitz were stricken by the judge and eliminated from the case however, after Dershowitz's attorney argued that they were baseless.[50] A court document alleges that Epstein ran a “sexual abuse ring”, and lent underage girls to “prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”[51]
 
According to what I read Epstein was only convicted once for solicitation of an underage prostitute. All else are allegations and what some people claimed but material that was either not admissible in court or deemed too weak an evidence to lead to convictions. I am not saying that Epstein is an angel but vilifying him as a pedophile is ridiculous.

Prude America has no issue to let police men who shoot and kill unarmed citizens go free but a guy who had sex with a prostitute who happened to be under age brand marks one for life. I am happy to stand corrected but ONLY on court convictions. Judging someone as a pedophile based on people who have a monetary interest and motivation in accusing others and tabloid stories is not anything that society should accept as evidence that someone committed a crime. A conviction or proof beyond any doubt is evidence but not an accusation.

It is ridiculous to now insinuate that half of Hollywood and Washington DC is into children just because they associated with Epstein. Normal people have to be repeated under age sex offenders to be brand marked as such and be registered as pedophiles but here it seems a guy who has done more in terms of donating to good causes than most anyone else is vilified because he solicited a hooker who happened to be under age. Not saying this is not a crime, but I am talking about relativity here.
You either misread or read the wrong thing.

BTW - There is a difference between a criminal and civil lawsuit.

What is your definition of a pedophile? If you do it just once, it is okay with you?
 
I read he wiki and it seems there was one single conviction. And that was a prostitute.

Dozens of victims... a long term continual pattern of pedophile behavior. This is not about a single incident with "a hooker who happened to be under age".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#Solicitation_of_prostitution

In March 2005, a woman contacted Palm Beach police and alleged her 14-year-old daughter had been taken to Jeffrey Epstein's mansion by an older girl and paid $300 after stripping and massaging him.[11] She had undressed, but left on her underwear.[20]

Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and seventeen witnesses under oath, a high-school transcript and other items they found in Epstein's trash and home allegedly showed that some girls were under 18.[21] A search of Epstein's home found large numbers of photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom had been interviewed earlier by the police.[20] Papers filed in 2006 state that Epstein installed concealed cameras in numerous places in his property to record the rape of sexually trafficked minors by prominent people for criminal purposes such as blackmail.[22]

Epstein had set up a system of young women recruiting other women for his massage services.[11] Two housekeepers stated to the police that Epstein would receive "massages" every day whenever he stayed in Palm Beach.[20] In May 2006, Palm Beach police filed a probable cause affidavit saying that Epstein should be charged with four counts of unlawful sex with minors and one molestation count.[20] His team of lawyers included Gerald Lefcourt, Alan Dershowitz and later Ken Starr.[11] Epstein passed a lie detector test in which he was asked whether he knew of the underage status of the girls—although lie detector tests are generally not admissible in a court of law.[23][24]

Instead of following police recommendation, the prosecutors considered the evidence weak[23] and presented it to a grand jury. Former chief of Palm Beach police Michael Reiter later wrote to State Attorney Barry Krischer to complain of the state's "highly unusual" conduct and asked him to remove himself from the case.[11] The grand jury returned only a single charge of felony solicitation of prostitution,[25] to which Epstein pleaded not guilty in August 2006.[26]

In June 2008, after pleading guilty to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14,[27] Epstein began serving an 18-month sentence. He served 13 months, and upon release became a registered sex offender.[3][28] There is widespread controversy and suspicion that Epstein got off lightly.[29]

After the accusations became public, several parties returned donations they had received from Epstein, including Eliot Spitzer, Bill Richardson,[12] and the Palm Beach Police Department.[21] Harvard announced that it would not return any money.[12] A range of charitable donations Epstein had made financing children's education were also brought into question.[27]

On June 18, 2010, Epstein's former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, was sentenced to 18 months in jail for trying to sell a journal that he said recorded Epstein's activities. FBI Special Agent Christina Pryor reviewed the material and agreed it was information "that would have been extremely useful in investigating and prosecuting the case, including names and contact information of material witnesses and additional victims."[30][31] Epstein allegedly lent girls to powerful people to ingratiate himself with them and also to get possible blackmail information.[29]

In January 2015, a 31-year-old American woman, Virginia Roberts, alleged in a sworn affidavit that at the age of 17, she had been employed by Epstein as a sex slave and he trafficked her to several people, including Prince Andrew and Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz. She claimed that Epstein and others had physically and sexually abused her.[32]

She alleged that the FBI may have been involved in a cover-up.[33] Roberts said she served as Epstein's sex slave from 1999 to 2002, recruiting other girls.[34] Prince Andrew, Epstein and Dershowitz all deny having sex with Roberts, and Dershowitz is taking legal action over the allegations.[35][36][37] A diary purported to belong to Roberts was published online.[38][39]

The BBC television series Panorama planned an investigation of the scandal.[40] As of early 2015 no law court had tested these claims.[41]

On April 7, 2015, Judge Kenneth Marra ruled that the allegations made by Roberts against Prince Andrew had no bearing on the aim of the lawsuit to reopen Epstein's non-prosecution agreement and should be struck from the record.[42] Judge Marra made no ruling as to whether claims by Roberts are true or false.[43] Marra specifically stated that Roberts may later give evidence when the case comes to court.[44]

Civil lawsuits
On February 6, 2008, an anonymous Virginia woman filed a $50 million civil lawsuit[45] in federal court against Epstein, alleging that when she was a 16-year-old minor in 2004–2005, she was "recruited to give Epstein a massage." She claims she was taken to his mansion, where he exposed himself and had sexual intercourse with her, and paid her $200 immediately afterward.[25] A similar $50 million suit was filed by a different woman in March 2008, who was represented by the same lawyer.[46] Several of these lawsuits were dismissed, and all other lawsuits were settled out of court.[47] Epstein has so far made 17 out-of-court settlements, and some cases are ongoing.[48] A December 30, 2014 federal civil suit was filed in Florida against the United States for violations of the Crime Victims' Rights Act in agreeing to the 2008 plea; it accuses Dershowitz of sexually abusing a minor provided by Epstein.[49] (See Two Jane Does v. United States.) The allegations against Dershowitz were stricken by the judge and eliminated from the case however, after Dershowitz's attorney argued that they were baseless.[50] A court document alleges that Epstein ran a “sexual abuse ring”, and lent underage girls to “prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”[51]
 
I am talking about a court conviction, civil or criminal.

In Australia there was a case where a reserve army member dated a 16 year old girl which is legal in Australia. The case cause a huge stir and many people alleged it was disgusting how a 40 year old guy dated a 16 year old girl. The mother went ballistic. The daughter disassociated with her mom and other accusers as she was committed to the relationship. Does that make this guy a pedophile? I would argue no. But what I care most about is the legality and whether criminal conduct is proven by a verdict that leads to a conviction IN COURT. If a victim cared about right or wrong he or she would never settle out of court. Settling out of court is either done for financial gain or because the victim believes the evidence is too weak and won't lead to a guilty verdict.

You either misread or read the wrong thing.

BTW - There is a difference between a criminal and civil lawsuit.

What is your definition of a pedophile? If you do it just once, it is okay with you?
 
I read he wiki and it seems there was one single conviction. And that was a prostitute.
There are CIVIL lawsuits that he has previously settled. That means someone sues you for money and he paid them money.

But, I get your argument. Since you are convinced all of the lawsuits were dismissed as bullshit, I guess your argument is that the one against Trump and Epstein now will also be dismissed as bullshit.
 
I read he wiki and it seems there was one single conviction. And that was a prostitute.

If that is all you get after reading the wiki summary... then I can only state you have a complete lack of empathy towards the under-age victims of sexual exploitation by Epstein and other wealthy & powerful people.
 
There was no mention of that in either of the two filings I read. Nor did I read anything about being held as a sex slave, and the filings I read were from girls who were much younger than 17 at the time of the alleged incidents. According to the filings there were multiple incidents involving both Epstein and Trump, but there was no mention of any other adult male. I only read two of the filings. According to the filings, a key witness was an employee of Mr. Epstein at the time these incidents are alleged to have occurred. My source is what appears to be the actual filings with the court. I think the most reliable information is in the sworn statements contained in the filings because if substantially false statements are knowingly made, there can be very serious consequences, whereas almost anything can appear on the web, and does.
So why are we not hearing about this on MSNBC, NBC, ABC, etc. all day everyday?
 
Yes and that means NADA. There are millions of reasons why an alleged offender settles out of court, among others, to close a case and move on. It says nothing about whether he or she is guilty or not.

But a victim usually only settles for 2 reasons: making a quick buck, or too weak evidence that won't lead to a favorable ruling in court

There are CIVIL lawsuits that he has previously settled. That means someone sues you for money and he paid them money.

But, I get your argument. Since you are convinced all of the lawsuits were dismissed as bullshit, I guess your argument is that the one against Trump and Epstein now will also be dismissed as bullshit.
 
And sure, if the alleged victims settle with Trump out of court that would never make a Trump guilty. Either they were just shooting for quick cash or their evidence is simply too weak. I am fair to either side. My whole argument, by the way, is not motivated by politics but a legal stance.

There are CIVIL lawsuits that he has previously settled. That means someone sues you for money and he paid them money.

But, I get your argument. Since you are convinced all of the lawsuits were dismissed as bullshit, I guess your argument is that the one against Trump and Epstein now will also be dismissed as bullshit.
 
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