What are your beliefs?

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Then perhaps your hang up is not viewing man's actions from the purity of grace you automatically give to animals .

Emperor Palpatine,

Could you perhaps re-word your thoughts so that I might have a clearer understanding of what you are trying to say?

It seems as if you are saying that I am not seeing a distinction between man's actions and those of animals.

It also seems that you are saying that perhaps I am falsely giving animals a "get out of jail free card" simply because they are animals, and that maybe they should be held accountable in the same regards that we are held accountable.
 
Quote from Hoofhearted:

Emperor Palpatine,

Could you perhaps re-word your thoughts so that I might have a clearer understanding of what you are trying to say?

It seems as if you are saying that I am not seeing a distinction between man's actions and those of animals.

It also seems that you are saying that perhaps I am falsely giving animals a "get out of jail free card" simply because they are animals, and that maybe they should be held accountable in the same regards that we are held accountable.
no, it's not my responsibility, to ensure you understand anything.
 
Interesting we are very similar to some species of ants. They wage war, occupy land that isn't their own, take prisoners, enslave other ants. Now do they enjoy all this? Being unable to communicate with ants the best one could say is we don't know for sure.
Do all humans enjoy such activity? I would say no. However, mutations occur as with all living things and some of these mutants find pleasure in the suffering of others, to varying degrees. Therefore I would conclude since all living things are part of an evolutionary process and all living things are subject to mutations, some of these ants may in fact enjoy the pain they're inflicting.
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/04/01/the-rebellion-of-the-ant-slaves/
 
Quote from Hoofhearted:

Morals, labels, hypocrisy- more divisions between man and the natural world.

Could someone please tell me, What other creatures in the natural world attain these attributes or assets?


Imo – more artificial divisions

Also the way I interpret your comment – you sound as if humans are somehow superior



If so….

What other creature ostracizes another of their herd/ flock/ clan – simply because the color of their hide, fur, wings may be different

What other creature move so quickly to judge their fellow member(s) – then label them by nothing more than made up terms

RN
 
Quote from CaptainObvious:

Interesting we are very similar to some species of ants. They wage war, occupy land that isn't their own, take prisoners, enslave other ants. Now do they enjoy all this? Being unable to communicate with ants the best one could say is we don't know for sure..

Good point Capn’. This reminds me of a fascinating study that Darwin did on slave driver ants. If memory serves me correctly (which it often doesn’t), the ants he studied enslaved a completely different type of insect, like a caterpillar. It seemed like more than just slavery- it was as if the caterpillars were being farmed.























However, mutations occur as with all living things and some of these mutants find pleasure in the suffering of others

You mean like this guy?


Phoenix Trader

Hehe eh- just kiddin, PT :^D












Therefore I would conclude since all living things are part of an evolutionary process and all living things are subject to mutations, some of these ants may in fact enjoy the pain they're inflicting.

I already conceded to PT , that he may be correct, when he pointed out the possibility that some creatures may actually find pleasure in the death of others.

Now what you are saying has me realizing too, that I truly can’t say for certain, that animals in the natural world do not enjoy the prolonged suffering of others.

My gut is telling me No, but my hunches have been wrong before.

But, How would we ever know unless a clear line of communication is opened between us?

Trying to imagine having a clear line of communication with an ant doesn't really seem any more daunting than having a clear line of communication with some people.

You know the type?

I’m talkin about the ones who refuse to try to understand others, and deny the opportunity to help others understand.
 
Quote from Lucrum:

[ *"Near death" experiences. I've taken the time to watch quite a few interviews. I'm intrigued. And can't help but note the strong similarities from one to another.

The closest I would say that I ever came to having an NDE was back in the day. As kids we used play a game called "Elevator", in which we'd make ourselves pass out by holding our breath as hard as we could for as long as we could.

As I understood it, the lack of oxygen to the brain would cause it to begin shutting down.
If this lack of oxygen were prolonged, then our brain would lose control over more and more of our functions, right up until the brain itself "dies" and cannot be revived.

One of the first apparent effects of this phenomenon, was that it caused us to lose is our conscious thought, along with our voluntary ability to control our muscles, including the ones holding our diaphragm in place.

As a result our bodies would collapse, and our breathing would resume through our involuntary mechanisms.

An interesting thing seemed to happen surrounding the black-out episodes.

I, and others would report that while remembering the moments before losing consciousness, and remembering the moments after regaining consciousness- we could not remember one single thing that happened in the moments of our black-out.

Some of the kids, who were all too often capable and willing to be cruel, would sometimes severely punch the arms or legs of the poor dumb individual who was passed out.

Evidence showed us there was no physical re-action to the punches coming from the person who was self-subdued. They would just lay there as limp as a wash cloth- seemingly completely unaware that they were being pummeled.

Spoken testimony revealed there seemed to be no memory of immediately feeling any pain from the punches during the black-out.

After witnessing these acts of cruelty, I quickly decided to stop participating in this stupid game, and I recalled having soreness and bruises later in the day after partaking, and once even pissed my pants.

The game continued amongst others, for a while, until one day a fellow class-mate remained unconscious for about a minute or two longer than he should have, and began turning greenish blue in skin tone.

When he started to move again, his body writhed like a snake that had been cut in half, meanwhile convulsing and foaming from the mouth.

In the days that followed- after the ambulance came and ushered him away- I remember hearing that he recovered from the episode, but I don't recall that he ever returned to our class room.

As far as I could tell, that event ended the came for the rest of the students, too.

For me to conclude that my experiences with lack-of-oxygen induced black-outs could be compared with true NDE's that others have had, would be pure speculation.

However, if the brain's first immediate re-action in the shut down process is to cut-off memory making capabilities, then it's difficult to imagine at which point memory functions would be re-implemented.

Of course, the lack of conscious memory may only apply to myself, and the relatively few others who shared their similar experiences as I did. Or, perhaps the memories are still sitting in there for all of us participants, and we just haven't tapped into them.



Anyhow, you said you were intrigued by the subject, so I thought I would share with you the only insight I have into the matter, and I agree that the concept is intriguing.

I suppose I don't have the same certainty, or even the hope that others seems to have, in regards to whether or not we carry over our conscious memories of who we are or what we did, into an afterlife.
 
Quote from achilles28:

Although I won't discuss it, I had a supernatural experience with Christ.

I respect it is not something you are willing to talk about at the moment, but if you decide to change your mind at any point, I, for one, think this could make for some VERY interesting reading, and that it could also turn out to be beneficial for others.
 
Quote from MarketMasher:

Does it really matter what someone believes (other than to him/herself, of course)?



Quote from trendlover:

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"Beliefs" So those beliefs can make them kill because they think they only survive if they kill. Like animals.




Quote from Redneck:

Depending on which particular part of the world one hails, one’s thoughts/ actions could be deemed sinful... or perfectly acceptable




Quote from futurecurrents:

The reason that hunting and fishing is fun is because we are tapping into a natural instinct. To be part of the predator/prey relationship. Man is no more "sinful" in nature than nature itself.




Quote from ~~~:

i believe in miracles ! :D



Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

I think I may be God masquerading in the land of light and shadows just for the pure entertainment of it all.



Quote from kmgilroy89:

I see it as decisions that could be made external of genetics and environmental influence.



Quote from Hooti:


I suspect that today God only works with our religious structure because many insist on it. Totally a mercy on his part.


Quote from achilles28:

I believe in the supernatural - spirits, demons, spirit channeling, conjuring, majic, the occult, devil worship, angels etc. Once a person acknowledges the existence of God, it opens up a whole new universe of possibilities in terms of spiritual creatures - angels, demons etc.



Quote from Lucrum:

Then why do you bleeding heart liberals insist on interfering with natures natural selection/survival of the fittest when it comes to humans?



Quote from CaptainObvious:

Therefore I would conclude since all living things are part of an evolutionary process and all living things are subject to mutations, some of these ants may in fact enjoy the pain they're inflicting.



Quote from Hoofhearted:

I appreciate your input on this, by the way.



It’s a privilege to speak with people to who have put forth the effort - who have reached within and are willing to intelligently converse such a profound subject.


We live in a lazy drive-thru society in which many just don’t even bother to ask the questions, however they are often willing to answer Your questions in a similar manner, without depth and in accordance to how they feel at that particular moment.





You just don’t get instant gratification from in-depth thought. The gratification can only come from a challenging and sustained journey.






Many our fellow fish swimming around in this bowl-of-an-earth are merely skimming the surface, biding time for the instant gratification that falls with each flake of food dropped in front of their mouths. They just eat it up.


Then there are the bottom feeders- you know- the ones who are down in the bowels of the tank, waiting for shit to be dropped. They feed off of it.





Neither know true hunger. To know true hunger is to be blessed with the ability to swim deeper waters, searching and toiling for nourishment of spirit wherein the gratification comes at the end of a laborious journey-





That said, it must be also noted that our ocean would be not near the beauty it is without our friends who take the easy food at the surface and at the bottom.
For it is they who unknowingly and unintentionally carry the potential to be the best of instructors.

Observing their patterns indeed make brilliantly apparent our own spirit’s hunger pangs, and provoke the need to explore the full volume of our ocean,…hence the true beauty of our cohabitation.
 
from achilles28:

I believe in the supernatural - spirits, demons, spirit channeling, conjuring, majic, the occult, devil worship, angels etc. Once a person acknowledges the existence of God, it opens up a whole new universe of possibilities in terms of spiritual creatures - angels, demons etc.

Since the above was taken out of context by hoof, I have to take it with a grain of salt that it's representative.

I don't consider myself superstitious and don't scare easily at all.
As a matter of fact I didn't believe until after the encounter.

About all I feel comfortable with is sharing that, I once encountered an entity that had me frozen in terror. I suppose the best description in common terms would be a real life "Dementor",
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VKhEFVAoScI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


btw : the encounter was way before Harry Potter



I also , one time was asleep and awakened suddenly and without needing to move any muscle at all except moving my eyes slightly, I noticed the luminous clock numbers read 3:00 am.
Curiously I continued to stare at the clock (and not being able to see anything else in the pitch black), wondering what was going on.
The clock struck 3:01 at precisely the time an Earthquake struck.
 
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