Price accurately.
Quote fast.
No charts or other useless distractions.
What are the most professional automated trading platforms ?
- Thread starter Peternam
- Start date
Price accurately.
Quote fast.
No charts or other useless distractions.
Anyone who suggests strategy developing in any of the mentioned platforms has never made an automated system more profitable than descretionary trading.
Strategy development takes place more in matlab, excel, braincel and many other non-trading platforms, including pencil and paper. People who try automated development solely in ___ platform are newbies on a yellow brick road trying to make a "grail" (automated system better than discretionary) out of traditional indicators (impossible).
I have tried Multicharts, SierraCharts, Lightspeed, eSignal, Ninjatrader, TWS, and a few others I can't recall. Since there seems to be a discrepancy with what a "amature" platform is (most likely due to the modest discretionary traders and nonprofitable ET dolts), I'll clearly define it for you - E*Trade is newbie, TWS web is newbie, Thinkorswim is newbie, Multicharts is a cross toward newbie. Almost all of the Java platforms are crap.
Ninjatrader is the best, with the big downfall of bugs. Charts in Ninjatrader are, at least imo, by far the most intuitive and easiest to work with. I can't imagine how many hours people must waste working with the mouse clicking/hand aching in the others. Automated trading (NOT development) is actually excellent in NT - I saw some other comments saying otherwise. Sorry, Mr. Discretionary
it seems allot of losers around here like to slam NT because they failed to come up with anything productive (read...profitable) in Ninja and ultimately left blaming the platform's downfalls instead of blaming themselves, even if 5%-9% of the problem was their responsibility to get around the NT bugs. My message to these shortcomers: pull your f*cking boot straps up and throw your pathetic of an ego out the door - stick with support and resistance until you decide to learn what really makes automated trading tick (hint: it doesn't involve any of the default 'indicators' you'll find in any platform!)
Be aware that there is allot of bias about Multicharts - anyone who is Russian will not only automatically proclaim it as number one, but will go borderline trolling against others when they say it's not. I think Ninjatrader is the clear winner in discretionary, however others are very good like Sierrachart and Lightspeed.
For automation, also check out Cyborg trading.
Bottom line.....not only does NT 7 outrank in discretionary trading, it still wins in automation and automated execution. Others don't cover this (lightspeed), don't cover it as well (Sierrachart), or do it in a very newbie and useless way with lots of feminine colors (Multicharts with easylanguage). Just my opinion, cheers.
edit: I know the OP was talking about 'professional', but I took it as professional retail. Real professional platforms would be none of the above. For institutional level, I recommend Bloomberg. But for a retailer, this may not be the best choice, even if bb is far superior to the rest. My $.02 is to look to Ninjatrader, considering it's UI, Ninjascript, and superior user following - but also try the trials of the other platforms. With Ninjatrader you can run a strategy that you would normally run in a custom app fabric while having all of the options that would be difficult in custom software or impossible in other retail platforms - multibroker (NOT available in ANY other platform - want one broker, mr corzine?), charts, detail pnl gen (couldn't even find this in TWS!).....
Strategy development takes place more in matlab, excel, braincel and many other non-trading platforms, including pencil and paper. People who try automated development solely in ___ platform are newbies on a yellow brick road trying to make a "grail" (automated system better than discretionary) out of traditional indicators (impossible).
I have tried Multicharts, SierraCharts, Lightspeed, eSignal, Ninjatrader, TWS, and a few others I can't recall. Since there seems to be a discrepancy with what a "amature" platform is (most likely due to the modest discretionary traders and nonprofitable ET dolts), I'll clearly define it for you - E*Trade is newbie, TWS web is newbie, Thinkorswim is newbie, Multicharts is a cross toward newbie. Almost all of the Java platforms are crap.
Ninjatrader is the best, with the big downfall of bugs. Charts in Ninjatrader are, at least imo, by far the most intuitive and easiest to work with. I can't imagine how many hours people must waste working with the mouse clicking/hand aching in the others. Automated trading (NOT development) is actually excellent in NT - I saw some other comments saying otherwise. Sorry, Mr. Discretionary
it seems allot of losers around here like to slam NT because they failed to come up with anything productive (read...profitable) in Ninja and ultimately left blaming the platform's downfalls instead of blaming themselves, even if 5%-9% of the problem was their responsibility to get around the NT bugs. My message to these shortcomers: pull your f*cking boot straps up and throw your pathetic of an ego out the door - stick with support and resistance until you decide to learn what really makes automated trading tick (hint: it doesn't involve any of the default 'indicators' you'll find in any platform!)Be aware that there is allot of bias about Multicharts - anyone who is Russian will not only automatically proclaim it as number one, but will go borderline trolling against others when they say it's not. I think Ninjatrader is the clear winner in discretionary, however others are very good like Sierrachart and Lightspeed.
For automation, also check out Cyborg trading.
Bottom line.....not only does NT 7 outrank in discretionary trading, it still wins in automation and automated execution. Others don't cover this (lightspeed), don't cover it as well (Sierrachart), or do it in a very newbie and useless way with lots of feminine colors (Multicharts with easylanguage). Just my opinion, cheers.
edit: I know the OP was talking about 'professional', but I took it as professional retail. Real professional platforms would be none of the above. For institutional level, I recommend Bloomberg. But for a retailer, this may not be the best choice, even if bb is far superior to the rest. My $.02 is to look to Ninjatrader, considering it's UI, Ninjascript, and superior user following - but also try the trials of the other platforms. With Ninjatrader you can run a strategy that you would normally run in a custom app fabric while having all of the options that would be difficult in custom software or impossible in other retail platforms - multibroker (NOT available in ANY other platform - want one broker, mr corzine?), charts, detail pnl gen (couldn't even find this in TWS!).....
I'm laughing behind my monitor at you not making any money with code....
.......LMAO!!
....no no, stop being in denial. I think you should hang up your PnL sheet of just automated trades (or just draw a big ZERO on your wall)...
You need to be more specific. Are you referring to professional or retail platforms? Although there is nothing wrong with having a retail platform as a backup/whatever, most of them are written for schleps. The professional platforms are out of reach for the vast majority of ET'ers.
If learning a modern programming language is an issue, then I'd be questioning whether automated trading is for you.
FWIW, most shops develop in C++/C#/Java (with some notable exceptions using Scala/OCaml/F#/etc). A lot of research/testing is done in Matlab/R/Python/Excel/etc.
Quote from tenthousandmen:
Anyone who suggests strategy developing in any of the mentioned platforms has never made an automated system more profitable than descretionary trading.
Strategy development takes place more in matlab, excel, braincel and many other non-trading platforms, including pencil and paper. People who try automated development solely in ___ platform are newbies on a yellow brick road trying to make a "grail" (automated system better than discretionary) out of traditional indicators (impossible).
I have tried Multicharts, SierraCharts, Lightspeed, eSignal, Ninjatrader, TWS, and a few others I can't recall. Since there seems to be a discrepancy with what a "amature" platform is (most likely due to the modest discretionary traders and nonprofitable ET dolts), I'll clearly define it for you - E*Trade is newbie, TWS web is newbie, Thinkorswim is newbie, Multicharts is a cross toward newbie. Almost all of the Java platforms are crap.
Ninjatrader is the best, with the big downfall of bugs. Charts in Ninjatrader are, at least imo, by far the most intuitive and easiest to work with. I can't imagine how many hours people must waste working with the mouse clicking/hand aching in the others. Automated trading (NOT development) is actually excellent in NT - I saw some other comments saying otherwise. Sorry, Mr. Discretionary
Be aware that there is allot of bias about Multicharts - anyone who is Russian will not only automatically proclaim it as number one, but will go borderline trolling against others when they say it's not. I think Ninjatrader is the clear winner in discretionary, however others are very good like Sierrachart and Lightspeed.
For automation, also check out Cyborg trading.
Bottom line.....not only does NT 7 outrank in discretionary trading, it still wins in automation and automated execution. Others don't cover this (lightspeed), don't cover it as well (Sierrachart), or do it in a very newbie and useless way with lots of feminine colors (Multicharts with easylanguage). Just my opinion, cheers.
edit: I know the OP was talking about 'professional', but I took it as professional retail. Real professional platforms would be none of the above. For institutional level, I recommend Bloomberg. But for a retailer, this may not be the best choice, even if bb is far superior to the rest. My $.02 is to look to Ninjatrader, considering it's UI, Ninjascript, and superior user following - but also try the trials of the other platforms. With Ninjatrader you can run a strategy that you would normally run in a custom app fabric while having all of the options that would be difficult in custom software or impossible in other retail platforms - multibroker (NOT available in ANY other platform - want one broker, mr corzine?), charts, detail pnl gen (couldn't even find this in TWS!).....
+1
I wouldn't trade without NinjaTrader because I can code almost anything imaginable...
Hi, can you elaborate on this?
Are you referring to the order APIs (eg use C++ to connect to the broker to place orders/retrieve prices)? Or do you mean there are actually platforms out there which allows us a programmer to set up, parameterize, and initiate back-testing simulation runs directly via his Java/C++/C# application instead of from some GUI? Pardon the ignorance.
Are you referring to the order APIs (eg use C++ to connect to the broker to place orders/retrieve prices)? Or do you mean there are actually platforms out there which allows us a programmer to set up, parameterize, and initiate back-testing simulation runs directly via his Java/C++/C# application instead of from some GUI? Pardon the ignorance.
I realize this is a slightly old thread, but this topic has affected my operation a lot lately and rather than start a new thread I thought I would share my experiences and opinions on this one.
It seemed like just the point that the most correct answer started coming out of this thread, everyone stopped posting. Tenthousandmen and Equalizer just started to touch on it, and I was waiting for more discussion and then it stopped.
I tried for a long time to discover an off-the-shelf analysis/automation program that would both do the numerical/stat analysis and then allow me to develop trading signals and automated triggers based on the results. In the end, there was no such program, even for $$$$. The retail programs really just provided tools to backtest the same types of strats that everyone loses money with. Like Tenthousandmen suggested, these programs are incapable of developing an automated system better than discretionary.
In the end, I discovered the real solution is something like the following.
Basically, no retail software is going to have a packaged analysis platform that will provide an edge in trading. Every Joe out there is running MAs, bands, channels, S&R, Stochs, with these retail apps. There is no edge there. If you want an edge you must be more creative and determined than that, and this means using tools without built in boundaries. Any app offering built-in scanners and analysis packs is imposing the exact boundaries that you must avoid.
It seemed like just the point that the most correct answer started coming out of this thread, everyone stopped posting. Tenthousandmen and Equalizer just started to touch on it, and I was waiting for more discussion and then it stopped.
I tried for a long time to discover an off-the-shelf analysis/automation program that would both do the numerical/stat analysis and then allow me to develop trading signals and automated triggers based on the results. In the end, there was no such program, even for $$$$. The retail programs really just provided tools to backtest the same types of strats that everyone loses money with. Like Tenthousandmen suggested, these programs are incapable of developing an automated system better than discretionary.
In the end, I discovered the real solution is something like the following.
- SQL server (or cheap/free variant) for flat form data storage/retrieval
- MatLab if numerical in nature, or R/S-Plus if more stats based, for data processing, analysis, and presentation.
- Proprietary app for indicators/alerts/triggers, in my case C# based but can be C++ or Java too.
- X-Trader, T4, or Ninja for direct access automated trade execution. I prefer X-Trader (or T4 for less expense), but I'm not as familiar with Ninja.
Basically, no retail software is going to have a packaged analysis platform that will provide an edge in trading. Every Joe out there is running MAs, bands, channels, S&R, Stochs, with these retail apps. There is no edge there. If you want an edge you must be more creative and determined than that, and this means using tools without built in boundaries. Any app offering built-in scanners and analysis packs is imposing the exact boundaries that you must avoid.
Excel is useful for its simplicity. It can't handle any type of load at all. I use it for basic analysis because pivot tables are handy, but the real-time data streaming via DDE can be very glitchy.
If the strategy calls for any type of real-time analysis like Monte Carlo sims, Excel really bogs down. I also wouldn't trust it to handle synthetic spreading or anything like that.