What are the largest fortunes ever made by INDEPENDENT traders?

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Quote from atticus:

I know the guy in my story never added a dime to the initial $10-$12k. He was trading with BOM and hit like 30 consecutive wins averaging better than 10% per trade. $10k to $300k the first year. $2MM the second year, at which time he moved to UBS. He was hitting position limits, so adding cash would've been a hindrance. He hit $10MM the third year and opened an gmbh and a PB relationship.

He destroyed UBS (FX); BNP and SocGen's equity exotics desks. His had a great feel for short-term turns and would often go up to 50% of capital in 1W NTs and DNTs. I recall one trade in which he bought an NT in the SP500 that was 13 pts otm. He bought the NT for $4MM with a NT payout of $10MM. At the time his capital was ~$11MM. Huge balls. Bet paid.

There is no better gearing than American exotics. Certainly a lot easier to fathom than a guy trading RegT. I learned a ton from the guy. The bets are easy to price and tough to hedge (Derman), but what is amazing (to me) is that he didn't replicate even after hitting $20MM. IIRC, he was forced to hedge OTC and listed when he hit $40-$50MM. I know it took roughly 3 years to go from $10MM to $100MM, all organic growth and after-tax.

Haters gonna hate.
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Amazing story.

What do you think, how much money can a retail trader make with trading FX, Futures & Stocks.

And second in private banking, as to start with $5M?

Lets say for 20 years trading, with 11 monhts profit a year and 1 month holiday.

Thank you
:) :) :)
 
Quote from HATEtheRisk:

Amazing story.

What do you think, how much money can a retail trader make with trading FX, Futures & Stocks.

And second in private banking, as to start with $5M?

Lets say for 20 years trading, with 11 monhts profit a year and 1 month holiday.

Thank you
:) :) :)
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I know traders who have turned $5k into $200k, but invariably give-up a 40-50% drawdown. With shares it's extremely difficult under regT and this volatility. FX at 50x is more reasonable, but most of those guys are degens and must blow-out to satisfy their aberrant psych.

FX traded as an equity proxy on a swing-basis is probably one's greatest opportunity, outside of American exotics and/or listed option spreads/combos.

I am not sure I understand the "private banking" question other than to say that he waited to hit $10MM before establishing a PB relationship. UBS took his account from the $2MM level. He was trading FX exotics at that time and it was his toughest period (his words). Too big to trade retail and too small to trade OTC equity exotics (at $2MM)
 
Quote from atticus:

I know traders who have turned $5k into $200k, but invariably give-up a 40-50% drawdown. With shares it's extremely difficult under regT and this volatility. FX at 50x is more reasonable, but most of those guys are degens and must blow-out to satisfy their aberrant psych.

FX traded as an equity proxy on a swing-basis is probably one's greatest opportunity, outside of American exotics and/or listed option spreads/combos.

I am not sure I understand the "private banking" question other than to say that he waited to hit $10MM before establishing a PB relationship. UBS took his account from the $2MM level. He was trading FX exotics at that time and it was his toughest period (his words). Too big to trade retail and too small to trade OTC equity exotics (at $2MM)
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Interesting.:p

Look, i see it this way......
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First, with just retail trading, outside the US. I can trade all markets with leverage, FX + Futures - normal & Stocks as CFDs.

As well i can trade Stocks as Futures, like on the EUREX. So leverage is everywhere.

Imagin i start business with 10 retail brokerage companies, for example like FXCM or MB Trading. There are more than 10 good ones out there......
So i make $3M with everyone, starting with 10k - 50k each account. 3M is not the world and they allow you to do this, as long they have a minimum total company capital of around 100M$ - like FXCM........

So, then what you have is 10 x 3M = 30M$, alone from Retail Brokerage Firms.
-----------------------------
Second, "private banking" i mean the service from big banks for high net worth individuals, what begins with 5M$ personal funds.
Thats the minimum to get in touch with that kind of special service.
Then you are trading the real FX market, its lika institutional access, but for private persons. of course for all markets, the best access and service. Just like if you would be a own company, but on the private way.

So, here one Bank is enough. And there is probably no Limit in making money here.

At $50M you are counting as Ultra High Net Worth Individual.
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I dont know if Richard Dennis, had a own firm, or if he did it with private banking trading - but this is the way to do it, if you will make more than 5M$..............at this level you are just too big for retail companies, and your money isnt safe their neither.....

What do you think ?


:p :p :p
 
Quote from HATEtheRisk:

Interesting.:p

Look, i see it this way......
-------------------------
First, with just retail trading, outside the US. I can trade all markets with leverage, FX + Futures - normal & Stocks as CFDs.

As well i can trade Stocks as Futures, like on the EUREX. So leverage is everywhere.

Imagin i start business with 10 retail brokerage companies, for example like FXCM or MB Trading. There are more than 10 good ones out there......
So i make $3M with everyone, starting with 10k - 50k each account. 3M is not the world and they allow you to do this, as long they have a minimum total company capital of around 100M$ - like FXCM........

So, then what you have is 10 x 3M = 30M$, alone from Retail Brokerage Firms.
-----------------------------
Second, "private banking" i mean the service from big banks for high net worth individuals, what begins with 5M$ personal funds.
Thats the minimum to get in touch with that kind of special service.
Then you are trading the real FX market, its lika institutional access, but for private persons. of course for all markets, the best access and service. Just like if you would be a own company, but on the private way.

So, here one Bank is enough. And there is probably no Limit in making money here.

At $50M you are counting as Ultra High Net Worth Individual.
----------------------
I dont know if Richard Dennis, had a own firm, or if he did it with private banking trading - but this is the way to do it, if you will make more than 5M$..............at this level you are just too big for retail companies, and your money isnt safe their neither.....

What do you think ?


:p :p :p
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I don't see the point of brokerage diversification to that extent. It's a logistical nightmare and completely unnecessary. If SEC-regulated brokers go to shit then only cash in the mattress is safe when guarded by Mssrs. Smith and Wesson.

My point regarding notional limits has nothing to do with traditional delta1 products. American exotics are not traded retail in size. You must trade with a bank. He would have no trouble trading $100MM in any of those products with a retail account. For example, my brother has over $50MM with IB alone. ;)
 
Quote from atticus:

I don't see the point of brokerage diversification to that extent. It's a logistical nightmare and completely unnecessary. If SEC-regulated brokers go to shit then only cash in the mattress is safe when guarded by Mssrs. Smith and Wesson.

My point regarding notional limits has nothing to do with traditional delta1 products. American exotics are not traded retail in size. You must trade with a bank. He would have no trouble trading $100MM in any of those products with a retail account. For example, my brother has over $50MM with IB alone. ;)
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I see........

I only trust retail broker firms, from the USA and UK, if they have enough money.

You can never care enough about the security of your own funds.
Remember MF Global.

All i want is to switch all my trading to Big Banks in private banking access, so i have the best of the best and dont have to care about anything else anymore, than just doing trading.......

Have a nice weekend:p
 
Quote from atticus:

I know he went from 10k to nearly 800k the first year. Betting-limits were the limiting factor. He opened accounts in his friends names, but always funded those accounts and shared the proceeds. IOW, he would've made more if not for spreading the wealth.
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Quote from atticus:

I know the guy in my story never added a dime to the initial $10-$12k. He was trading with BOM and hit like 30 consecutive wins averaging better than 10% per trade. $10k to $300k the first year. $2MM the second year, at which time he moved to UBS.
More...

Very interesting story, indeed!
 
"Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's property [nor his margin trading account]"...

Money (greed/covetous behavior), sex (lust/porn/fornication, etc), in full control (trying to control everyone around you thru anger & intimidation and consequently losing control of yourself, etc.)... You gotta keep the beat and run away... [The Real McCoy --- Run Away]
 
Quote from pattern43:

"Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's property [nor his margin trading account]"...

Money (greed/covetous behavior), sex (lust/porn/fornication, etc), in full control (trying to control everyone around you thru anger & intimidation and consequently losing control of yourself, etc.)... You gotta keep the beat and run away... [The Real McCoy --- Run Away]
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Religion: the source of all evil.
 
Japanese daytrader/scalper Takashi Kotegawa (BNF/J-Com Man) traded $13,600 into $153 million in 8 years. Zanger, Rotter, etc, they all provide great inspiration to us all and show that it is possible to make it big.
 
Atticus,
Thanks for sharing/elaborating on the German exotics trader..you`ve made reference to him in the past & has intrigued me since...excellent read!
 
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