What are realistic goals for an 18-year old swing/position trader?
- Thread starter TraderGreg
- Start date
I am 20 now and I started trading forex when I was 15. I only began to be consistent about a year ago and it was after I learned one simple fact, use LOW leverage, and let the market come to you. You don't need 20% today, or this week, or next month, so why bother trading that large and risky, its better to shoot for 20% a year and skip all the gambling involved in trying to make those crazy returns, then get a wall street job (internship idea was good), save some money, then run that through your 20% machine.
Although thats what people told me when I started and I had to learn the hard way. Which, from talking to different people seems the only way.
The best education for me was actually trading and finding out what did and didn't work. Now this education cost me a few thousands, as well as many headaches and lower grades in some cases.-It should be noted that those thousands have been well made up for by the 2x leveraged shorts I've had on the dow all year.
However I learned that it is better to trade with less risk and focus on other parts of your life (school, etc.) because think about it, isn't it better to work on a system that you need to check only once or twice a day (although it will probably be much more once you become a true market junky).
Money management is key. I have been right about direction many many times and lost when i should have won due to inpropor money management. It is KEY.
I'm still chasing the dream of being an self supporting trader (although hedge fund dreams are there, but one step at a time). It is a long hard road, but if you can do it (and its easiest when you are young, so you won't have real bills to pay yet) the rewards are definitely worth it.
Like making hundreds of dollars while i slept last night (EUR/JPY shorts from 170 ;-)) while my friends are still at 9 an hr working retail.
Although thats what people told me when I started and I had to learn the hard way. Which, from talking to different people seems the only way.
The best education for me was actually trading and finding out what did and didn't work. Now this education cost me a few thousands, as well as many headaches and lower grades in some cases.-It should be noted that those thousands have been well made up for by the 2x leveraged shorts I've had on the dow all year.
However I learned that it is better to trade with less risk and focus on other parts of your life (school, etc.) because think about it, isn't it better to work on a system that you need to check only once or twice a day (although it will probably be much more once you become a true market junky).
Money management is key. I have been right about direction many many times and lost when i should have won due to inpropor money management. It is KEY.
I'm still chasing the dream of being an self supporting trader (although hedge fund dreams are there, but one step at a time). It is a long hard road, but if you can do it (and its easiest when you are young, so you won't have real bills to pay yet) the rewards are definitely worth it.
Like making hundreds of dollars while i slept last night (EUR/JPY shorts from 170 ;-)) while my friends are still at 9 an hr working retail.
Forex margin is insane. Who really needs 250:1? I began two weeks ago and decided immediately my limit would be to only trade $200 for every $500. I doubled my account in the last two days, and I have doubled since I began. Forex is so easy! Even when the choppy markets come around, one week like this is enough for months. My scalping is losing a little bit, but I will get that down as well.
As for nobody is smarter than the markets, I think not. If this were true, nobody would beat the market average. I can be wrong on certain trades, but I will always be smarter than the market.
Order and money management has been key for me. I lost tons of money making stupid mistakes like not leaving myself a day trade (with only a few thousand I only have three in options). A few trade mistakes passed, forcing myself to read my rules and fill out my journal, and my management is solid.
Besides being down 45% over three weeks in my options account and up 200% in my forex account, I am well ahead of my expectations. Once I get ten straight weeks of profits, I will go live (still in paper).
Edit: my broker's forex margin is 100:1, which I will trade $200 for every $500
As for nobody is smarter than the markets, I think not. If this were true, nobody would beat the market average. I can be wrong on certain trades, but I will always be smarter than the market.
Order and money management has been key for me. I lost tons of money making stupid mistakes like not leaving myself a day trade (with only a few thousand I only have three in options). A few trade mistakes passed, forcing myself to read my rules and fill out my journal, and my management is solid.
Besides being down 45% over three weeks in my options account and up 200% in my forex account, I am well ahead of my expectations. Once I get ten straight weeks of profits, I will go live (still in paper).
Edit: my broker's forex margin is 100:1, which I will trade $200 for every $500
You should look into trading forex with Oanda, they allow you to use any unit size you want so you can really customize exactly what amount of leverage to use. Also if you look at their forums check out the way orlandoflyboy trades, he has a nice simple method of MM that i have found, with some adaptations to be extremely useful.
OANDA is the best forex broker for small funds imho (i haven't gotten to big funds yet so wouldn't know about those).
Although what I have found useful is running one low leverage, safe main account, the one that I run my main strategy on, and have the most funds allocated to and a smaller higher lebveraged account that I use to try to "raise funds", meaning take a hundred bucks and turn it into 500 or a 1000 using high leverage, at which point i'll take out the profit and put it into my safer account.
Consistency and discipline are what is most important.
OANDA is the best forex broker for small funds imho (i haven't gotten to big funds yet so wouldn't know about those).
Although what I have found useful is running one low leverage, safe main account, the one that I run my main strategy on, and have the most funds allocated to and a smaller higher lebveraged account that I use to try to "raise funds", meaning take a hundred bucks and turn it into 500 or a 1000 using high leverage, at which point i'll take out the profit and put it into my safer account.
Consistency and discipline are what is most important.
I'm probably not the first and certainly won't be the last to tell you its a completely different ballgame btw paper and live trades. Besides the emotional aspect which cannot cannot cannot be overstated, the fills are also different, the speed of quotes may be different too (depending on broker, most brokers don't provide paper accts with fully realtime quotes).
Just be prepared to not experience the same results when you go live because you will have to deal with new hurdles that you didn't encounter on paper.
Just be prepared to not experience the same results when you go live because you will have to deal with new hurdles that you didn't encounter on paper.
Thank you both for your your replies.
Pegasys, your managing strategy sounds quite sound. Personally, I haven't decided how I'm going to rotate funds as of yet. My goal is to take $1200 and make it into enough to live off trading when I get out of college in 4 years. My plan is to keep my 2:5 ratio until I move up every $500 + $150 for leeway. For example, I will trade $200 on 100:1 from 1,000-1650, before moving up to 300. This will keep my account easier to manage. After that, I haven't yet devised a profit-taking plan. Once I get a few grand, I will split it into a scalping and swing account though (if I stay with forex, trading options is wild but I will decide that after some more experience).
Pegasys, your managing strategy sounds quite sound. Personally, I haven't decided how I'm going to rotate funds as of yet. My goal is to take $1200 and make it into enough to live off trading when I get out of college in 4 years. My plan is to keep my 2:5 ratio until I move up every $500 + $150 for leeway. For example, I will trade $200 on 100:1 from 1,000-1650, before moving up to 300. This will keep my account easier to manage. After that, I haven't yet devised a profit-taking plan. Once I get a few grand, I will split it into a scalping and swing account though (if I stay with forex, trading options is wild but I will decide that after some more experience).
Thank you for your answer, swordsman.
Firstly, I can't even explain how happy I am to tell you that I have both real-time charts and quotes in my paper account. I realized when early with options that my charts were real time and my quotes delayed 20 minutes. What a joke! I was trading breakouts before they happened based on my fills.
However, I bothered TOS about this one for days and they let me go real time (to their same feed for live quotes) in order to simulate real trading. I even told them they could delay my charts as long as my quotes were synchronized with it to also protect their business interests, but they let me have have them anyway. Good people.
What are the fills like in live accounts, and how do they differ? I have heard plenty of people tell me that they are different, but never in any detail. I imagine that it would amount to maybe 0.05% slippage unless you are on really high volume, but this number is really only a guess from intraday charts. What are real fills like?
Also, how much difference does it make using fills with odd stops and limits? I picked up the idea from a stock trader such as using a buy stop at 29.11 instead of 29.10. Thanks for your help!
Edit: The emotional aspect I don't see as too much of an issue. I have been training myself for years to ignore my emotions unless they are necessary, and now that I discovered trading I can put it to better use than just thinking about stuff. Also, I am harder on myself than anyone I've ever met. If I lose 15% on my paper options account for a trade in which I either messed up an order, oversaw something I shouldn't have, etc., I feel like I've been steam rolled.
I will trade paper though until I am profitable in 10 straight weeks, so I will learn to manage what is left of my emotional trading in that time (which will, unfortunately, likely be more than 10 weeks anyway).
Thanks for your input.
-- Greg
Firstly, I can't even explain how happy I am to tell you that I have both real-time charts and quotes in my paper account. I realized when early with options that my charts were real time and my quotes delayed 20 minutes. What a joke! I was trading breakouts before they happened based on my fills.
However, I bothered TOS about this one for days and they let me go real time (to their same feed for live quotes) in order to simulate real trading. I even told them they could delay my charts as long as my quotes were synchronized with it to also protect their business interests, but they let me have have them anyway. Good people.
What are the fills like in live accounts, and how do they differ? I have heard plenty of people tell me that they are different, but never in any detail. I imagine that it would amount to maybe 0.05% slippage unless you are on really high volume, but this number is really only a guess from intraday charts. What are real fills like?
Also, how much difference does it make using fills with odd stops and limits? I picked up the idea from a stock trader such as using a buy stop at 29.11 instead of 29.10. Thanks for your help!
Edit: The emotional aspect I don't see as too much of an issue. I have been training myself for years to ignore my emotions unless they are necessary, and now that I discovered trading I can put it to better use than just thinking about stuff. Also, I am harder on myself than anyone I've ever met. If I lose 15% on my paper options account for a trade in which I either messed up an order, oversaw something I shouldn't have, etc., I feel like I've been steam rolled.
I will trade paper though until I am profitable in 10 straight weeks, so I will learn to manage what is left of my emotional trading in that time (which will, unfortunately, likely be more than 10 weeks anyway).
Thanks for your input.
-- Greg
No joke, he was a real hot shot, now he appears to be caught in a web of deceit. He might have been slicker than Bill Clinton, but now we will never know. $15,000 a month for support, and he didn't know anything, yeah right,
This is what you are talking about, $1500. C'mon, a Mutual fund, or buy some clothes, so you could be like Edwards.
This is what you are talking about, $1500. C'mon, a Mutual fund, or buy some clothes, so you could be like Edwards.
When I was a kid, I use to watch a lot of football on TV & read books about football players.
I learned more from practice and playing than I ever did from reading.
Books never stepped on my hands with a cleated foot, kicked me in the shins, punched me in the crotch or knocked the wind out of me.
My point is to remind you to play defensively.
I learned more from practice and playing than I ever did from reading.
Books never stepped on my hands with a cleated foot, kicked me in the shins, punched me in the crotch or knocked the wind out of me.
My point is to remind you to play defensively.