""We're running out of hope. Can't you see?"

[Lucrum]

Quote from BSAM:

Hold up Greggo.
The measure of a man isn't by how much money he has.
The best people I've known in life have been poor people.
There's some really pathetic rich people all around.
I think you are a bit misguided here, bro.
Thanks for letting me help you along.

Looks to me like he was referencing "lazy slackers". While most are, NOT all poor people are lazy slackers.

 

[nitro]

Quote from Lucrum:

Looks to me like he was referencing "lazy slackers". While most are, NOT all poor people are lazy slackers.

My God man, look at the way Mexican people work. Most of them don't make 12,000 a year. My GF is a machine, she doesn't make much either. My parents are mules, they never made any money. Most poor people work their ass off. What a horrible misconception, one that I don't understand where it comes from.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from nitro:

My God man, look at the way Mexican people work. Most of them don't make 12,000 a year. My GF is a machine, she doesn't make much either. My parents are mules, they never made any money. Most poor people work their ass off. What a horrible misconception, one that I don't understand where it comes from.

It comes from lazy ass slacker welfare queens nitro.

Hence my emphasis on NOT all poor people are lazy.

 

[sme]

Quote from piezoe:

Isn't it more or less a matter of degree? I don't understand those that want no regulation and no government interference with capitalists-- that want total laissez faire capitalism. Ironically, that will only lead to calls for more government regulation rather than less, and likely bad regulation at that. A perfect example is the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1998. That's what the capitalists wanted, and it led to financial ruin and more, but not necessarily better, regulation. So I would argue that for their own good capitalists should want both good government regulation and a level playing field. But they don't. They want no regulation and monopolies and cartels.

Free markets are what you get when you have regulations in place and enforced that prevent monopolies and cartels from forming and encourages competition. This creates a fertile climate for innovation.

I don't see why free markets can't exist within both socialist and capitalist societies, but probably not easily in a communist society, of course, since in communist states capital and the means off production are controlled by the State.

I have noticed that many posters here on ET like to speak of capitalism and free markets in one breath as though they were one in the same. They are not.

Don't know if you have read it, but recommend the article referenced in this old thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vB/showthread.php?threadid=161690

Think Simon Johnson has a clear view on what you describe.

 

[TGregg]

Quote from nitro:

(although even if true, you are misguided by what the reason is, and it is actually economic, not emotional)

It's actually founded upon a widespread idea that the economy is a giant pizza and if someone takes too many slices all you have to feed your family is the box.

I kid you not (still).

People honestly believe that if you make a dollar more, that means somebody else made a dollar less.

Don't believe me? Watch `em rise to argue this point. Used to be that we (in the States) believed in a concept called "making money".

Not any more.

By "losers" I mean people who have absolutely no desire to do anything to improve their situation, their current standard of living, even to earn a meal. If you have been so fortunate as to never have met these people, I envy you. But I assure you they exist. They have no inclination to even take the trash out of their apartment, preferring to enjoy the stench rather than the trouble of disposal.

 

[TGregg]

Quote from BSAM:

Hold up Greggo.
The measure of a man isn't by how much money he has.
The best people I've known in life have been poor people.
There's some really pathetic rich people all around.
I think you are a bit misguided here, bro.
Thanks for letting me help you along.

See my quote above on losers. Actually, read a lot of my stuff, you'll learn some things. Nowhere have I ever said that someone without money is a loser. Have you ever read that quote about assuming things?

 

[TGregg]

And finally for tonight, I'd like to point out that absolutely nobody is arguing the central point of my post:

Quote from TGregg:

. . .most people do, probably closer to 90% than 10.

Not only do few people care, but pretty much everyone does. It might have been (probably was?) different back when this country was formed, but now folks see a dollar in your pocket as a dollar that should have been in their's.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from sme:

Don't know if you have read it, but recommend the article referenced in this old thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vB/showthread.php?threadid=161690

Think Simon Johnson has a clear view on what you describe.

Very nice article. Thank you. And yes, that is exactly what i was eluding to, but perhaps it was too subtle for some ET readers.

I have commented in other threads about how the capitalists, and I consider myself to be one of them, have through financial power been able to bend government toward their own objectives.

There is good capitalism and there is bad capitalism. We should do our best not to confuse them!

 

[sme]

Quote from piezoe:

Very nice article. Thank you. And yes, that is exactly what i was eluding to, but perhaps it was too subtle for some ET readers.

I have commented in other threads about how the capitalists, and I consider myself to be one of them, have through financial power been able to bend government toward their own objectives.

There is good capitalism and there is bad capitalism. We should do our best not to confuse them!

It opened my eyes. Hard to see the forest for the trees when we grow up inside it.

 

[poyayan]

The problem is that society has forced option 1 on EVERYONE, as if it is some law of nature that we must live to work, retrain by going to school at night, so we can do more work. What a miserable existance.

Well, even animals in safari have to hunt in order to survive. So, yes, we live to work and work to live. Holidays and evenings are our downtime. Much like when lions lying around doing nothing most of the day.

When you think about government systems. Dump it down to a few people. Like 5 people on an island. Who is doing what and you get a clear trade off of different systems.

Free-market socialism. All countries have some of both. Whether it is 90% free-market 10% socialism , or 10% free-market and 90% socialism, each country draw their line differently.