Weinstein Trading and Fading

Quote from mikea59:

Bob,

Takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there the way you do. It's a real education for everyone following your journal (journey) through the good times and bad. So sorry you had things turn on you as it did, but it will remind a lot of people around here how easy it is to fall off the cliff, I know I will be more cautious going forward.

Looking forward to watching you pull your self out of this hole.
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Hello Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to post. I am sorry that I did not respond sooner as it appears that in the mix of it all I jumped around a bit.

I can say that it was not a fun day on Monday and even worse having to 'drop my pants' and admit it to the world. Then I went home to tell my wife. She was great and basically said that I would have it back shortly.

I agree with you and hope that it does bring to light how easy it is to really get hurt in a trade and that risk control is so important.

I wish you a great weekend and best of trading to you sir

Bob
 
Quote from geez:

Well, I guess I will be the one to post it since no one else has.....Congrat's Mr W!

Does no one else see what this man did? Does no one else see the (excuse my french) balls this man has??
Not to risk such an amount, but to TAKE THE LOSS!!! Mr W. saved his career by taking that stop loss (his words, not mine). He was put to the ultimate test in trading and it came down to: put everything into this one trade, or take a loss that wipes out most of the work he had done this year...
How many people could be able to factor in all the variables that Mr W was going through yesterday morning and do the same thing he did? He took the biggest loss of his trading life he said...but the true victory is that he TOOK it. He knows his system works over time and that big swings to the down side are part of the system. How many of us can say we are +60k on the year? (I can't).......But how many stories have you read, or posts have you seen of people who have a great system or who have traded for years and all of a sudden they are gone....I think it would be safe to say it is one or two trades that blows most people out. That inner Id telling you "there is no way this stock can keep going up"....."why get out now when the stock has been up nine days straight and is gapping up another 8 dollars"......one person who posted alot on ET just got blown out by GS last week after years of posting. As traders we all have an ego to some extent, that feeling that we have an edge that others don't. Alot of it stems from being very good in other professions (my guess, MrW was a hell of a business man in his day)....but to have to put that ego in check is one the the hardest things in trading. To admit the wrong and move on. I am not very good with numbers, but I would guess 85% of traders could not get themselves to take that stop. The other half would be so emotionally distraught they would not be able to look at a trade for months. Mr W fired right back yesterday with a few winners.
So, Mr W......congratulations on taking the Stop.
You lived to fight another day and that is more than most can say.
How many people who blew out their account do you think woke up the next morning and said "why didn't I just take the loss and try to move on from there". Thankfully Mr W did.
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Hello Geez,

Wow, I am very much humbled by the time and effort that you put into your post. Thank you for your very kind words.

Its people like you that make ET and the chat as great as it is. Allow me to say thank you very much for helping me end my week on a positive note by reading your post.

I think your journal in ET is a real asset and the discipline alone you show in your trading shows that you dont have to be a quant with a fifth degree blackbelt in quantum physics PHD to come up with a winning strategy. Having the ability to follow your trading plan is the hardest part of this game and you prove that it can be done and it works.

I wish you a safe journey in your travels and that you get home soon.

Best of trading to you as well.

Robert
 
Quote from piggie2000:

you must be joking. unless the trade is broken that day its a done deal period.How many people ever got a cent back due to massive company fraud such as accounting fraud? fraud is fraud. zero. its part of the game. the sec is going after the peoples profits as the trades were on for weeks. How about the millions knocked out of ge at $6 because of the "rumours" its was going bk. roumours and fraud are part of the game.Years ago i was short 5k pmcs and they halted the stock accidentally at 3:55 pm for earnings instead of 4 pm. i was going to exit before the close and couldn't. i lost 15k and it was tough shit for me. I think a few weeks ago bob made some good money due to a bogus story on lm that some investor was increasing his stake. it was all over the news wires. it allowed bob to short high and cover low when the story was said to be a lie. did bob have to give his profits back or did the longs who bought at the high and lost big get there loses back? of course not
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Hello Piggie,

Thanks for your comments and opinions.

I have not looked into what happens for very long as this is my first time on this bus but from talking with the SEC and from the website of the SEC people actually do get money back SOMETIMES and in various amounts. Even the victims of Madoff expect to get SOME of their money back (how much is probably anyones guess at this point)

I would agree that millions changed hands as a result of rumors that GE could fall. I myself included covered some GE puts as a result and lowered my exposure.

I am sorry that you took the hit from a stock halt that was wrongly timed. I would not trade based on those types of worries as they happen so rare but I would agree that if you trade everyday your bound to go through many of those things and some will be good and some will be bad (IB resets their servers nightly and when I started trading Hong Kong I was caught in a trade that I could not exit as a result but ended up making out ok as a result)

You are also correct that I have made money in the past being short rumors that were corrected while I was short. But there is an important point that needs to be made. I LEGALLY made the money that I did and followed the rules and the people that lost money on the other sides of those trades lost LESS money as a result of me taking the other side of the trade as well as the people that sold there stock to me when I covered. So in those legal trades the counterparty benefited from my trading as I provided liquidity while taking the opposite side.

Now the people that lost money when I made money dont have a cause of action against ME I would say that they do HAVE a cause of action against those that produced the false rumors (fraud) and hopefully they can get money from them. Just as in my case where I ended up being victimized by this fraud.

I dont expect that people on the other side of my trade that committed no crimes should be punished but in the case where the SEC does find and in a court where its found someone committed fraud I do feel that they should have to make the victims "whole" again.

Now do I expect to get any money back? No, but I do think those that commit these fraudulant acts should pay dearly for what they do.

Best to you

Robert
 
Quote from piggie2000:

Bob no disrespect but i wouldn't hold my breath getting one cent back.Every person who was short who covered from july 1st on when the scam of buying up the calls started could claim they were defrauded and want there money back. Rumours and manipulation are part of the game. If they were eroneous trades arca would have busted the trades. IF THEY GAVE YOU A PENNY BACK IT WOULD SET A PRECEDENT WERE ALL COULD CLAIM FRAUD ON MANIPULATED TRADES AND WANT THERE MONEY BACK. Also sorry to say you were a short seller and they're not going to look highly on that.
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Hello Piggie,

No disrespect taken and I am for sure not holding my breath. Even if I was to get anything back (and not counting on it) I would guess that it would be at least a year and could be years.

I would agree that short sellers are misunderstood by many and perhaps thats why its profitable to be one.

Have a good weekend

Robert
 
Quote from piggie2000:

Also sorry to say you were a short seller and they're not going to look highly on that.
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Someone who has low opinion about about short-seller should read this book first - http://www.amazon.com/Art-Short-Selling-Marketplace-Book/dp/0471146323/

They are the most daring people among the trading community. Imagine what happens if they are not around (or short selling is made illegal)?

Guess you are mixing it with the naked short-selling that is greatly abused by exchange insiders.

My 2 cents.

- Su
 
Hi Robert

I like the way you just got back in the saddle mate and within 2 days made back 10 K what you lost....Great stuff... great character...

Keep up the good work...


All the Best

John
 
Quote from beginnerjohn:

Hi Robert

I like the way you just got back in the saddle mate and within 2 days made back 10 K what you lost....Great stuff... great character...

Keep up the good work...


All the Best

John
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Hi John,

Thanks for taking the time to say so.

I guess I don't really have much choice but to grind away day after day unless I want to start applying for a job : o )

I hope your trading is going well.

Respectfully,

Robert
 
Monday brought some good trades today.

the housing numbers came out and brought a nice move down in the 30 yr Treasury prices. I am just about at full profit target with my covered short.

I had some trades today. All where gap up trades less one.

YGE + 204
NTY + 44
BCRX + 896

B7 trade
ACAD + 878 I did not get a total full target but the price was so low that I walked away a bit early. This lowered my risk but also lowered my return as it did keep falling into the profit target.

*** update to the day. After what I thought was my end of day I started to trade Jazz which reminded in a very sure and swift way why I normally get out of the way in the last hour of trading. I had a valid signal and really stepped on it hard which at first did work somewhat. I actually was up a few hundred with this stock and then it shot straight up like a rocket in the last half hour. My attempt at fading the move and with big size was not what I really needed at the end of the day. This one trade turned what could have been a really nice day into a total mess. Still short looking for a pullback in the AM.

Jazz – 3167

– 1143 Day
- 97616 Month
 
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