Weak economy... not just an aftermath of 2008

[J-Law]

Our sluggish economy of late is due to more than just the after effects of 2008. Granted they're other forces like corporate america waiting out the election. But there is a more insidious force at play & I'm finding a lil disturbing that there isn a larger dialogue & we haven't dragged it out into the sunlight to formally address.

As per 60 minutes & other lecturers, the Chinese are behind a state sponsored campaign of economic espionage targeting almost sector of our economy. They engage in cyber corporate thefts of ideas, designs, & patents from US corporations & then
Turn around & then manufacture & dump a cheaper versions into the intended markets of those they stole from. So, theyre engaging in intellectual property theft & then undercut everyone else. The end result is that American companies suffer & to keep competitive lay off workers. That means less taxable incomes for US city, states, & federal municipalities. This is in essence is eroding our country's standard of living by reducing incomes for our middle class and the stratas above & below it. This isn't fair trade. It's cheating on a global scale & were paying the price.

The US is not the only target. These cyber attacks for intellectual property are also aimed at European, Canadian, & Australian corporations as well.

This CSPAN lecture puts things in perspective,
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/305546-1

 

[morganist]

The biggest problem you have is the 100% plus national debt. The Chinese are allowing your economy to work by lending you the money you need to consume to then buy their goods. If America goes down China goes down. If what you are saying is true they are digging their own graves.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from morganist:

The biggest problem you have is the 100% plus national debt. The Chinese are allowing your economy to work by lending you the money you need to consume to then buy their goods. If America goes down China goes down. If what you are saying is true they are digging their own graves.

isn't that what GS did? They loaned a lot of money, America went down and they're still standing. According to the courts it wasn't actually sabotage, but a fair amount of money was made on failure.

 

[morganist]

Quote from oldtime:

isn't that what GS did? They loaned a lot of money, America went down and they're still standing. According to the courts it wasn't actually sabotage, but a fair amount of money was made on failure.

No it is all about aggregates and demand. China needs demand for the goods it makes it lends America money because it consumes them. If one of the two factors fail it brings them both down. Even if China was stealing stuff it enables Americans to buy cheaper goods. In any event they are in it together.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from morganist:

No it is all about aggregates and demand. China needs demand for the goods it makes it lends America money because it consumes them. If one of the two factors fail it brings them both down. Even if China was stealing stuff it enables Americans to buy cheaper goods. In any event they are in it together.

mutual assured destruction?

 

[morganist]

Quote from oldtime:

mutual assured destruction?

In the long term. In the short term it stops world war III.

 

[J-Law]

Frame it as you want. It is economic parasitism. Parasites in nature seldom kill off their host as it would mean death to the parasite. Any different from the old ghetto commerce model? Like lay away or store credit?
They have also changed the dynamic of trade agreement from mutually beneficial (win:win) to a win:lose proposition. They cannot compete on a normal playing field as for whatever reason they cannot generate the ideas quick enough to feed their manufacturing base. Reverse engineering products can take too long (years in some cases) So, they steal them instead. The other angle in their game is they keep they're currency artificially weak to drive their exports. This is flat out currency manipulation. But the US refuses to callnit that. The table is once again artificially slanted in their favor.

There are more Chinese SOE's (state owned enterprises) today than ever & their subsidiaries are setting up in across the US, Europe, & Australia to tap into whatever markets possible. Think about what that means. They are laying down a global infrastructure & they are backed by their government & military. What does those military have to do withit? Its military grade people whom are overseeing the cyber attacks an slicing thru corporate America's firewalls like a warm knife thru butter, extracting plans & secrets then building cheaper versions of the target & then selling it back to us. Corporate America are the proverbial fish in the barrel. Corporate America s what supplies the jobs in our nation. They hurt, then we hurt as well.

Another approach is underbidding.

A current example is a Chinese company is manufacturing the steel decking on the golden gate bridge. Why isn't Caltrans using an American company? PRICE! They are saving the taxpayers alleged millions & specifically avoiding using federal $$$ to fund the product. For a cash strapped state like California it seems to make sense. The really price is that somewhere there are American jobs being lost because of such actions.
Hwawei was the low bidder (40% below) all other birders on a telecom infrastructure build somewhere in Europe. They got the project. Only months later Seimen's engaged in large scale layoffs.
Were in a trade war that DC refuses to acknowledge & were getting our ass handed to us
because we are too slow to respond.

This is not fair trade & the American dream/prosperity is taking a hit because of it.


Think about it.

 

[morganist]

Quote from J-Law:

Frame it as you want. It is economic parasitism. Parasites in nature seldom kill off their host as it would mean death to the parasite. Any different from the old ghetto commerce model? Like lay away or store credit?
They have also changed the dynamic of trade agreement from mutually beneficial (win:win) to a win:lose proposition. They cannot compete on a normal playing field as for whatever reason they cannot generate the ideas quick enough to feed their manufacturing base. Reverse engineering products can take too long (years in some cases) So, they steal them instead. The other angle in their game is they keep they're currency artificially weak to drive their exports. This is flat out currency manipulation. But the US refuses to callnit that. The table is once again artificially slanted in their favor.

There are more SOE's (state owned enterprises) today than ever & their subsidiaries are setting up in across the US, Europe, & Australia to tap into whatever markets possible. Think about what that means. They are laying down a global infrastructure & they are backed by their government & military. What does those military have to do withit? Its military grade people whom are overseeing the cyber attacks an slicing thru corporate America's firewalls like a warm knife thru butter, extracting plans & secrets then building cheaper versions of the target & then selling it back to us. Corporate America are the proverbial fish in the barrel. Corporate America s what supplies the jobs in our nation. They hurt, then we hurt as well.

Another approach is underbidding.

A current example is a Chinese company is manufacturing the steel decking on the golden gate bridge. Why isn't Caltrans using an American company? PRICE! They are saving the taxpayers alleged millions & specifically avoiding using federal $$$ to fund the product. For a cash strapped state like California it seems to make sense. The really price is that somewhere there are American jobs being lost because of such actions.
Hwawei was the low bidder (40% below) all other birders on a telecom infrastructure build somewhere in Europe. They got the project. Only months later Seimen's engaged in large scale layoffs.
Were in a trade war that DC refuses to acknowledge & were getting our ass handed to us
because we are too slow to respond.

This is not fair trade & the American dream/prosperity is taking a hit because of it.


Think about it.

Can you clarify which country is the parasite in this situation please?

 

[oldtime]

Quote from J-Law:

Frame it as you want. It is economic parasitism. Parasites in nature seldom kill off their host as it would mean death to the parasite. Any different from the old ghetto commerce model? Like lay away or store credit?
They have also changed the dynamic of trade agreement from mutually beneficial (win:win) to a win:lose proposition. They cannot compete on a normal playing field as for whatever reason they cannot generate the ideas quick enough to feed their manufacturing base. Reverse engineering products can take too long (years in some cases) So, they steal them instead. The other angle in their game is they keep they're currency artificially weak to drive their exports. This is flat out currency manipulation. But the US refuses to callnit that. The table is once again artificially slanted in their favor.

There are more SOE's (state owned enterprises) today than ever & their subsidiaries are setting up in across the US, Europe, & Australia to tap into whatever markets possible. A current example is a Chinese company is manufacturing the steel decking on the golden gate bridge. Why isn't Caltrans using an American company? PRICE! They are saving the taxpayers alleged millions & specifically avoiding using federal $$$ to fund the product. For a cash strapped state like California it seems to make sense. The really price is that somewhere there are American jobs being lost because of such actions.
Hwawei was the low bidder (40% below) all other birders on a telecom infrastructure build somewhere in Europe. They got the project. Only months later Seimen's engaged in large scale layoffs.
Were in a trade war that DC refuses to acknowledge & were getting our ass handed to us
because we are too slow to respond.

This is not fair trade & the American dream/prosperity is taking a hit because of it.


Think about it.

yeah, I thought about it, we already went through this in the 50's. That's why they made us start saying the pledge of allegiance to the flag at school, so we could keep up with the USSR. Any idiot with a brain in his head could have spent a day looking at their economic system and realized it was unsustainable. The problem is anyone can now do the same with USA. If you own it is your responsibility to protect it. Whatever big corp wants government to do they will do, so don't worry about it. What do you want me to do? Vote for more politicians who will do what big business tells them to do? Don't we have enough already? I'd like to pick you up and drop you down over in China, then you would have a lot bigger problems to bitch about, namely starvation. I don't know why you are so worried about 300 million and care so little about a billion.

 

[cdcaveman]

Quote from morganist:

The biggest problem you have is the 100% plus national debt. The Chinese are allowing your economy to work by lending you the money you need to consume to then buy their goods. If America goes down China goes down. If what you are saying is true they are digging their own graves.

exactly how i think... if they think they can help print our way to a new future they are sick to... they are just a developing country.. don't think they have any more sense then our gov does..