We would be better nation if we started teaching out kids again

[Artful D0dger]

Actually not at all. The emancipation proclamation act of 1863 ONLY freed the slaves in Southern states. The North still had slaves during the war.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a "war measure," as Lincoln put it. Foreign correspondents covering the war recognized it as a brilliant propaganda coup. Emancipation would take place only in rebel states not under Union control, their state sovereignty in the matter of slavery arguably forfeited as a result of their having seceded from the Union. The president could not abolish slavery; if not done at the state level, abolition would require a constitutional amendment. Slaveholders and their slaves in Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, Tennessee, and parts of Virginia and Louisiana occupied by Union troops were exempt from the edict.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/miller1.html

And of course, war began well before the emancipation proclamation.

 

[Artful D0dger]

Abraham Lincoln 'wanted to deport slaves'

Abraham Lincoln wanted to ship freed black slaves away from the US to British colonies in the Caribbean even in the final months of his life, it has emerged.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-wanted-to-deport-slaves-to-new-colonies.html

 

[Artful D0dger]

Oh and of course, NYC had the 2nd highest rate of slave ownership per capita. NYC was in the Union, btw.

 

[Artful D0dger]

Thursday, December 02, 2010
Why The Civil War Was Not About Slavery
By Donald W. Livingston, Professor of Philosophy, Emory University

http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-civil-war-was-not-about-slavery.html

 

[stopnlimits]

Quote from Artful D0dger:

Thursday, December 02, 2010
Why The Civil War Was Not About Slavery
By Donald W. Livingston, Professor of Philosophy, Emory University

http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-civil-war-was-not-about-slavery.html

Slavery existed for thousands of years and people never fixed it on moral grounds. At the heart of the issue was money.

I'm willing to bet that there were strong industrial interests just dying to get to the black populations of the south. That was their market segment. For some reason slavery blocked their profits.

In war morality is the excuse not the cause. Why is it that the winner is always morally justified and never the loser?

 

[Artful D0dger]

Quote from stopnlimits:

Slavery existed for thousands of years and people never fixed it on moral grounds. At the heart of the issue was money.

I'm willing to bet that there were strong industrial interests just dying to get to the black populations of the south. That was their market segment. For some reason slavery blocked their profits.

In war morality is the excuse not the cause. Why is it that the winner is always morally justified and never the loser?

 

[seneca_roman]

Quote from Lucrum:

Apparently there were many many union soldiers that were unaware they were fighting over slavery, until the Emancipation Proclamation. After which it's an historic fact there was much grumbling and complaining that they had no desire to fight for the slaves. They were primarily fighting to save the union. I'm NOT implying slavery wasn't an issue, it was in fact a big one. My point is how is it that someone actually alive back then and directly involved in the fighting wasn't aware he was supposedly fighting to abolish slavery? As an ancillary point its no secret that many in the union army had no affection for and little if any respect for the African slaves, while many were drafted, were all those volunteers fighting and dying to free slaves they didn't give a rats ass about? Again these are documented facts and feelings of those actually involved in the Civil war, as opposed to academics who cam along over a hundred years later.

On the contrary, many of the first Union recruits came from the Republican paramilitary organization known as the "Wide Awakes" Here is one of their songs:

http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/gal/wideawak.html

"
O, what is all this noise about,
This midnight confusion?
'Tis the wide - awakes have all turned out,
and made this grand intrusion.

Chorus
Our cause is Abolition, and for the nigger we do cry;
For we do love the nigger, and we'll love him till we die!
And here we are with torch in hand,
We want to cut the figure;
For we proclaim, throughout the land,
That we all love the nigger.

We call ourselves the wide - awakes,
And vote for the rail - splitter,
Because we think the nigger makes
Our glorious cause the better.

'Tis honest Abe and Hamlin
We want to rule our nation;
And for the nigger we do claim
Equality of station.

The poor white man we wish to take
The place of Mr. Nigger,
And for this cause we're wide - awake,
And ready to pull the trigger.

For this we march with the torch - light,
To show our holy mission:
And worship nigger with delight,
And pray for abolition.

Then let our noble cause prevail
Through every land and nation,
Till none will dare our will assail,
But shout Amalgamation

"
http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2669:1.lincoln.1440.1447

 

[Artful D0dger]

Funny then, how they didn't free them in their own states in the Emancipation Proclamation, that was only for the ones in the South.

Funny then, how Lincoln planned to ship them all back to Africa, or out to the islands after they were freed. Even months before his death his writings describe plans as to how they could be deported.

Case in point, the Civil War was no more about slavery than the Iraq war was about "freedom for the Iraqis". The main interest Lincoln had in the slaves, was getting them out of America.

Quote from seneca_roman:

On the contrary, many of the first Union recruits came from the Republican paramilitary organization known as the "Wide Awakes" Here is one of their songs:

http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/gal/wideawak.html

"
O, what is all this noise about,
This midnight confusion?
'Tis the wide - awakes have all turned out,
and made this grand intrusion.

Chorus
Our cause is Abolition, and for the nigger we do cry;
For we do love the nigger, and we'll love him till we die!
And here we are with torch in hand,
We want to cut the figure;
For we proclaim, throughout the land,
That we all love the nigger.

We call ourselves the wide - awakes,
And vote for the rail - splitter,
Because we think the nigger makes
Our glorious cause the better.

'Tis honest Abe and Hamlin
We want to rule our nation;
And for the nigger we do claim
Equality of station.

The poor white man we wish to take
The place of Mr. Nigger,
And for this cause we're wide - awake,
And ready to pull the trigger.

For this we march with the torch - light,
To show our holy mission:
And worship nigger with delight,
And pray for abolition.

Then let our noble cause prevail
Through every land and nation,
Till none will dare our will assail,
But shout Amalgamation

"
http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2669:1.lincoln.1440.1447

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Artful D0dger:

Case in point, the Civil War was no more about slavery than the Iraq war was about "freedom for the Iraqis". The main interest Lincoln had in the slaves, was getting them out of America.

No, the war was about killing people like you. He did it out of pure joy. You might ask, what's my evidence for this?

 

[seneca_roman]

Quote from Artful D0dger:

Funny then, how they didn't free them in their own states in the Emancipation Proclamation, that was only for the ones in the South.

Funny then, how Lincoln planned to ship them all back to Africa, or out to the islands after they were freed. Even months before his death his writings describe plans as to how they could be deported.

Case in point, the Civil War was no more about slavery than the Iraq war was about "freedom for the Iraqis". The main interest Lincoln had in the slaves, was getting them out of America.

Simple answer re. Lincoln's EP: It was illegal to free them in the remaing USA states. Remember, the Constitution remained in effect, including Article 4:

"The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

(No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.) (This clause in parentheses is superseded by the 13th Amendment.)
"

It took an amendment to free the slaves in the States. Lincoln's EP had no legal bearing in the nation of the CSA; it was political.

Seneca