Was 2009 a disaster? What are you doing for 2010?

[trader#21]

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185965

 

[nutmeg]

there has been a systemic change in the markets and it will last for many many years
--------------------

PSYOPS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations

"What you're now seeing is ... profit and earning ratios are starting to get to the point where buying stocks is a potentially good deal if you've got a long-term perspective on it,"

----- Obama

 

[sws2179]

Trading has been good for me in 2009 and so far this year. The market changes but you'll also need to adapt to the changing market conditions; momentum plays, trend following, and swings are still favorable strategies for trading IMO.

 

[SethArb]

-HFT algorithmic systems-

ps I see this or variations of this in commodities and have been seeing this for yrs

my question is

is it just one or two firms doing this with a bunch of others "mimic"ing them ?

and is it the same group of "jockeys" who in all markets in all time zones have BOTS coded to "arb" and or buy low / sell hi ?

 

[promagma]

Quote from MohdSalleh:

yeap your story is like mine, in fact your numbers are similar to my own, but some systems are still doing well, a few pure discretionary traders are still doing relatively OK, but you are absolutely right, there has been a systemic change in the markets and it will last for many many years

2009 was rough, although $-wise not too bad since I have a lot more capital after 2008. So far 2010 had a terrible 2 days, it is so dead out there.

MohdSalleh why do you think this is going to last for years?

 

[Ephstrader]

Quote from tripledtrader:

ephstrader,

There has been a shifting of power to HFT algorithmic systems. Through flash orders and sub-pennying, they have the complete edge on us.

I've been a Bright trader for 10 years, and our firm is struggling as well.

I have launched a website to deal with these issues.

http://www.defendtrading.com

Check this out, it will answer a lot of questions for you. The sub-pennying stuff is critical to understand.

Dennis

I trade thin stocks a lot...ie 500k-2million shares traded a day. That would explain why I pull my hair out trying to get a fill and pound my desk in frustration while thousands of shares trade at my quoted price while I get nothing.

 

[spinn]

this would only affect scalpers 99.9999% of which lose money. The govts continuing and random buying is why things are so difficult.

Quote from tripledtrader:

ephstrader,

There has been a shifting of power to HFT algorithmic systems. Through flash orders and sub-pennying, they have the complete edge on us.

I've been a Bright trader for 10 years, and our firm is struggling as well.

I have launched a website to deal with these issues.

http://www.defendtrading.com

Check this out, it will answer a lot of questions for you. The sub-pennying stuff is critical to understand.

Dennis

 

[jd7419]

Quote from Ephstrader:

I have been a professional trader for the past 7 years trading predominately Nasdaq stocks. My p/l has gone up 20-40% a year from about $30k a year to my peak in 2008 at about $200k. Life was good...until 2009. Last year I made about $20k. I wish that were a typo but it isn't.

Obviously my confidence, size and risk tolerance have been profoundly effected by my performance. I have kept my head down and slogged forward hoping something would break right but I have felt 1-5 steps behind the curve consistently. I feel the only thing that can explain this is a systemic change in the way the markets trade making my techniques less profitable or obsolete.

Has anyone else noticed this out there? I'm not sure what I can do. Obviously I am broken, not the market and I'm not looking for a silver bullet. I just wanted to see "what it's like out there" and determine if something has changed in the market, if my strategies no longer work, or it's all in my head.....

I feel for you. I have been doing this ten years. I have had 2 negative years of less than $20,000 with all but 2 of my up years being over $300,000. I used to love doing this, but after 2009 the market took alot out of me. As I sit here today trading an absolutely crappy market I can't help wonder if I will be here this time next year. From my ten years experience normally when I feel this way the market Gods turn the market back on again. I just feel that this time might be different. Good luck.

 

[Ephstrader]

Quote from jd7419:

I feel for you. I have been doing this ten years. I have had 2 negative years of less than $20,000 with all but 2 of my up years being over $300,000. I used to love doing this, but after 2009 the market took alot out of me. As I sit here today trading an absolutely crappy market I can't help wonder if I will be here this time next year. From my ten years experience normally when I feel this way the market Gods turn the market back on again. I just feel that this time might be different. Good luck.

I guess if I had your kind of success when things were good, I might be a little less down but I echo your sentiment of 2009 kicking my rear. I hope we are both wrong and 2010 rocks but I think some part of my day will be spent checking on job postings as terrible as working for anyone but myself sounds.

 

[jd7419]

Quote from Ephstrader:

I guess if I had your kind of success when things were good, I might be a little less down but I echo your sentiment of 2009 kicking my rear. I hope we are both wrong and 2010 rocks but I think some part of my day will be spent checking on job postings as terrible as working for anyone but myself sounds. [/QUOTE

This is a tough business, you have to try get better everyday or the market will eat you alive. I think complacency has been my biggest problem. Granted the market is tough right now but I think a part of me just doesn't have the love, if you lose even an ounce of it you will lose in this game.