Warren Buffett Says America Is "So Rich" It Can Afford Single Payer

[NeoTrader]

Let's say I am one of the holdouts that just doesn't want to pay anything for any service? What happens then?

As to your broad comment, "held to a minimum" is a rather vague statement. Can you please explain to me how you think it should work in the specific hypothetical example I've given? How can "private enterprises competing in a free market" help in this particular case?

As to the choice of areas that are perceived by a particular community to be "necessary evils", isn't that something that should be left to the citizens to decide? For instance, in the most famous example of a direct democracy, people in Switzerland hold pretty regular referendums on a whole variety of subjects.

I did explain. You should read the post. I was very specific: National Defense, Police and Justice System. Everything else should be completely privatized(because everything else can be regulated by free markets). If you don't want to pay for any service to collect garbage, your house will just become a big garbage storage, a dump, that is your choice. There is no "free ride", you either pay it or you don't get the service.
And if the smell starts to bother your neighbors, the necessary evil called "justice system" will have the power to punish you for it.

 

[Martinghoul]

I did explain. You should read the post. I was very specific: National Defense, Police and Justice System. Everything else should be completely privatized(because everything else can be regulated by free markets). If you don't want to pay for any service to collect garbage, your house will just become a big garbage storage, a dump, that is your choice. There is no "free ride", you either pay it or you don't get the service.
And if the smell starts to bother your neighbors, the necessary evil called "justice system" will have the power to punish you for it.

Firstly, please note that my hypothetical question was about clean public spaces, not your private property. Therefore you haven't actually offered me any specific solutions.

Secondly, like I said, why do you get to choose what should and shouldn't be public in my community? Isn't that a form of tyranny in itself?

 

[NeoTrader]

Firstly, please note that my hypothetical question was about clean public spaces, not your private property. Therefore you haven't actually offered me any specific solutions.

Secondly, like I said, why do you get to choose what should and shouldn't be public in my community? Isn't that a form of tyranny in itself?

Your community can define whatever it wants, how it wants, as long as EACH AND EVERY person that lives in it agrees(which is praticaly impossible, but let's assume that you managed to make a miracle). In this setting, your very small community may decide whatever it wants regarded to garbage collection and if it accepts "free riders", no problem, they each pay for the free riders voluntarily. If one member does not agree with this, he simply gets out(which makes your miracle increasingly smaller).
If you're not in your community and you throw your garbage in public spaces(which is another matter, since government should hold no property), but taking today's reality, you'll simply be punished by the justice system(again).

 

[Xela]

Agreed, but do you really think people are happy to accept widespread "free-riding"?

Not so much ... but there are one or two examples where they probably are, over issues which (generally for "bad" reasons) have become "sacrosanct" to the popular will - I was thinking of the UK's national health service.

 

[Martinghoul]

Your community can define whatever it wants, how it wants, as long as EACH AND EVERY person that lives in it agrees(which is praticaly impossible, but let's assume that you managed to make a miracle). In this setting, your very small community may decide whatever it wants regarded to garbage collection and if it accepts "free riders", no problem, they each pay for the free riders voluntarily. If one member does not agree with this, he simply gets out(which makes your miracle increasingly smaller).
If you're not in your community and you throw your garbage in public spaces(which is another matter, since government should hold no property), but taking today's reality, you'll simply be punished by the justice system(again).

But what if my community decides that we don't want to accept "free riders"? In fact, my community gives you the freedom to choose whether to live in it or not, but if you choose the former, you would have to abide by the rules set by the majority. What is wrong with this approach and how is it worse than what you suggested?

Not so much ... but there are one or two examples where they probably are, over issues which (generally for "bad" reasons) have become "sacrosanct" to the popular will - I was thinking of the UK's national health service.

Agreed... Just another example of how nothing is ever about simple "black and white".

 

[NeoTrader]

But what if my community decides that we don't want to accept "free riders"? In fact, my community gives you the freedom to choose whether to live in it or not, but if you choose the former, you would have to abide by the rules set by the majority. What is wrong with this approach and how is it worse than what you suggested?

Nothing wrong with it... In fact, that is exactly what I propposed. If you read my last post, you'll see that this is exactly what I said.
The point is: people can opt out.
In a single payer system, people can't.

 

[Martinghoul]

Nothing wrong with it... In fact, that is exactly what I propposed. If you read my last post, you'll see that this is exactly what I said.
The point is: people can opt out.
In a single payer system, people can't.

Well, my suggestion, if you read my last post, was actually different to yours... I was saying that if people want to "free ride", they're free to opt out of living in my community. Conversely, if they choose to live in my community, they agree to abide by the rules set by the majority. As far as I can tell, this isn't tyranny, according to your definition.

 

[NeoTrader]

Let me copy the part of my post that explains exactly that... (That is the second time I'm showing you the same thing, so this is getting kind of boring.)
"Your community can define whatever it wants, how it wants, as long as EACH AND EVERY person that lives in it agrees(which is praticaly impossible, but let's assume that you managed to make a miracle). In this setting, your very small community may decide whatever it wants regarded to garbage collection and if it accepts "free riders", no problem, they each pay for the free riders voluntarily."
The same concept applies if they don't accept "free riders", which is what I talked about in the first place: if they don't pay, they don't get the service.
If the individual chooses to live in a way that he will accept the will of the majority, even if that means accepting things that he thinks would be better otherwise, it's OK, because AGAIN: he CHOSE to do that.
Even though he is living in a collectivist community, it is his INDIVIDUAL CHOICE to do so, therefore, no problem at all.

 

[Martinghoul]

Let me copy the part of my post that explains exactly that... (That is the second time I'm showing you the same thing, so this is getting kind of boring.)
"Your community can define whatever it wants, how it wants, as long as EACH AND EVERY person that lives in it agrees(which is praticaly impossible, but let's assume that you managed to make a miracle). In this setting, your very small community may decide whatever it wants regarded to garbage collection and if it accepts "free riders", no problem, they each pay for the free riders voluntarily."
The same concept applies if they don't accept "free riders", which is what I talked about in the first place: if they don't pay, they don't get the service.
If the individual chooses to live in a way that he will accept the will of the majority, even if that means accepting things that he thinks would be better otherwise, it's OK, because AGAIN: he CHOSE to do that.
Even though he is living in a collectivist community, it is his INDIVIDUAL CHOICE to do so, therefore, no problem at all.

Fantastisch! Doesn't this mean you're OK with the will of the majority and democracy as a result?

 

[NeoTrader]

Fantastisch! Doesn't this mean you're OK with the will of the majority and democracy as a result?

Boy... you're slow...
No, not at all... The system you described states that people can OPT OUT.
In a democracy, the will of the majority is IMPOSED and you CAN'T OPT OUT.
That is the problem with a single payer system: The government FORCES EVERYONE to pay, there is NO CHOICE.