There more I study and master trading, the more I recognize the good vendors from bad. I see some good ones on the list of scammers on this site. My belief is that most people don't have what it takes to be traders. So they blame the vendors. "It's the vendors fault that his system didn't work for me, boo hoo." I sudied 100s of hours before I spent my first nickel on a method. I have since put about 30 thousand into my trading education. I have not been screwed once. Some had 30 day money back guarantees. I let them keep my money because I learned from them. You have to do your homework and know a lot about technical anlaysis to be able to see which vendors have something worth the money. Many do, many don't. It worked for me. Just do your homework and quit bitching about bad vendors. Suckers will be weeded out of the markets anyway, even if they get a good system. Oh, and my trading buddy spent over 100 grand on his education as a trader. He is making up for that by making 5 figures each week in the Futures Market. He never once has complained about a vendor. There is plenty to complain about, I know. I'ts better to focus on the good ones. You can learn from them. They are out there. Just do your homework and find them.
Warning: Online Trading Academy (tradingacademy.com)
- Thread starter TraderZones
- Start date
There more I study and master trading, the more I recognize the good vendors from bad. I see some good ones on the list of scammers on this site. My belief is that most people don't have what it takes to be traders. So they blame the vendors. "It's the vendors fault that his system didn't work for me, boo hoo." I sudied 100s of hours before I spent my first nickel on a method. I have since put about 30 thousand into my trading education. I have not been screwed once. Some had 30 day money back guarantees. I let them keep my money because I learned from them. You have to do your homework and know a lot about technical anlaysis to be able to see which vendors have something worth the money. Many do, many don't. It worked for me. Just do your homework and quit bitching about bad vendors. Suckers will be weeded out of the markets anyway, even if they get a good system. Oh, and my trading buddy spent over 100 grand on his education as a trader. He is making up for that by making 5 figures each week in the Futures Market. He never once has complained about a vendor. There is plenty to complain about, I know. I'ts better to focus on the good ones. You can learn from them. They are out there. Just do your homework and find them.
Fighting_Scammers was right. Good job catching the OTA people Fighting_Scammer as they continue to ask questions to divert ala Socrates. I think a bunch of posters here with 10 or less posts are OTA employees. wrbtrader posted something that sounded very familiar with a former workplace I was at. They would hire salespeople who promised or already had leads, then they would put pressure on them after making sure they got their leads. The IT admin was told to capture their email stores so the managers could view them surreptitiously. After about 3-4 months they were usually fired. It happened over and over again. That's the same idea as OTA first hiring an instructor and ripping off his methods then making cheaper hires teach those ripped methods. Fighting_Scammers said his story about entering the office and not being noticed for many minutes, then finally the grouchy 
lady secretary, the heavyset white guy, and the black guy with the BMW noticed him and the bluetooth manager watching 3 monitors noticed him. They're probably paid pretty low so of course it was a funeral like atmosphere. I noticed from the beginning to the end of this thread, by the last 15 pages of this thread, new names with about 10 posts keep asking questions of the current "basher" AM. Probably OTA employees are told they have to do their "thread" work on forums like this or get threatened again to be fired or get some salary penalties. (similar threats to sales at my workplace.) It happened at my workplace (we were told to write fake reviews on Amazon and other sites) and I'm sure many small businesses are squeezing their employees around the U.S. in this depression economy where food stamps , UI, have replaced soup lines&kitchens and 99c store has replaced dime stores and overalls of the 20's and twitter, smartphones,mp3 sticks, and pads have replaced marbles and yoyos and newspaper boys , while the multinationals are sitting or investing 2 trillion in profits outside the country along with 30 million white collar jobs already shipped and forever gone(not to mention the college grad age current generation will be a lost generation of jobless middle class in the future history books), or next going to Brazil and South America. The whole thing sounds like an MLM where the inner circle/family or whatever make the decisions and send off the marching orders.
I'm glad I never signed on to the software or courses at Optionetics. At one time I was sorely tempted. Even a friend said to try WizeTrade. I had bought a $100 CD-ROM about tech analysis, and the whole thing was simplified worse than a wiki article. I had also signed up a $100 webinar with Fontanills and Tom , it lasted two hours, and it was a waste of time, (buy or sell when these two MA's cross for AAPL, yeah right; a broken wing butterfly on PRUdential. a couple other trades, a fib analysis where the market was going to be next year which turned out wrong, that was pretty much the webinar, then the sale for the 4 day seminars and the expensive trade finding software and/or access to their supercomputer server for finding Advanced-GET! trades) except the sell at the end for I think all that charging for a (ad) webinar ended now since Ninjatrader and many futures brokers now have free vendor of the week (ad) webinars now.
lady secretary, the heavyset white guy, and the black guy with the BMW noticed him and the bluetooth manager watching 3 monitors noticed him. They're probably paid pretty low so of course it was a funeral like atmosphere. I noticed from the beginning to the end of this thread, by the last 15 pages of this thread, new names with about 10 posts keep asking questions of the current "basher" AM. Probably OTA employees are told they have to do their "thread" work on forums like this or get threatened again to be fired or get some salary penalties. (similar threats to sales at my workplace.) It happened at my workplace (we were told to write fake reviews on Amazon and other sites) and I'm sure many small businesses are squeezing their employees around the U.S. in this depression economy where food stamps , UI, have replaced soup lines&kitchens and 99c store has replaced dime stores and overalls of the 20's and twitter, smartphones,mp3 sticks, and pads have replaced marbles and yoyos and newspaper boys , while the multinationals are sitting or investing 2 trillion in profits outside the country along with 30 million white collar jobs already shipped and forever gone(not to mention the college grad age current generation will be a lost generation of jobless middle class in the future history books), or next going to Brazil and South America. The whole thing sounds like an MLM where the inner circle/family or whatever make the decisions and send off the marching orders. I'm glad I never signed on to the software or courses at Optionetics. At one time I was sorely tempted. Even a friend said to try WizeTrade. I had bought a $100 CD-ROM about tech analysis, and the whole thing was simplified worse than a wiki article. I had also signed up a $100 webinar with Fontanills and Tom , it lasted two hours, and it was a waste of time, (buy or sell when these two MA's cross for AAPL, yeah right; a broken wing butterfly on PRUdential. a couple other trades, a fib analysis where the market was going to be next year which turned out wrong, that was pretty much the webinar, then the sale for the 4 day seminars and the expensive trade finding software and/or access to their supercomputer server for finding Advanced-GET! trades) except the sell at the end for I think all that charging for a (ad) webinar ended now since Ninjatrader and many futures brokers now have free vendor of the week (ad) webinars now.
Deaddog wrote:
I keep asking but never seem to get an answer.
What did you expect to learn that wasnât taught?
What was taught that cost you money?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a 7 day class, I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluff and I did not expect to be hussled during class time. I didn't pay $5,000 for a glorified informercial and to be inundated with sales pitch after sales pitch after sales pitch ad infinitum.
The T/A was ever so basic BUT....you still need to follow the news and not just charts. The advice to "eliminate the noise" out there and not utilize the media is bad advice and cost many of us tens of thousands of dollars.
Does that answer your question Deaddog, Or do you need more?
And has been mentioned by many of us, the trainers were not that good. Most were downright boring.
And once again I ask, if their product is so good, why not offer at least a 30 day money back guarantee that will let you test the product isntead of hyping the value and setting the c lass after the 3 day right to cancel period.
I keep asking but never seem to get an answer.
What did you expect to learn that wasnât taught?
What was taught that cost you money?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a 7 day class, I expected a lot more information and a lot less fluff and I did not expect to be hussled during class time. I didn't pay $5,000 for a glorified informercial and to be inundated with sales pitch after sales pitch after sales pitch ad infinitum.
The T/A was ever so basic BUT....you still need to follow the news and not just charts. The advice to "eliminate the noise" out there and not utilize the media is bad advice and cost many of us tens of thousands of dollars.
Does that answer your question Deaddog, Or do you need more?
And has been mentioned by many of us, the trainers were not that good. Most were downright boring.
And once again I ask, if their product is so good, why not offer at least a 30 day money back guarantee that will let you test the product isntead of hyping the value and setting the c lass after the 3 day right to cancel period.
SETRIGHT WROTE:
10-26-11 07:42 AM
I would have to agree with Bloomberg education is the key.
The problem is who do you believe. Find someone who is trading succesfully for guidance.
OTA is probably one of the better schools together with Jared Martinez's Market traders institute.
You have to then take what you are taught and apply it consistantly!
There are no shortcuts!------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fighting scams wrote:
I agree with Bloomberg too that education is key. I have never said anything against education and certaintly am not advocating ignorance.
As for OTA being one of the better schools, compared to who? Better Trades, Teach Me To Trade, Wade Cook, Larry Pino???? Who?
My experience with OTA was a bad one. Teachers were not that good and it was one big sales pitch with a lot of manipulation.
Calling them a school is quite a stretch.
I would like to know if there are any legitimate schools out there that really teach people how to trade successfully and treat people like people, have competent trainers with real counselors not used care salesmen and when you pay for a class, you get actual training, not just another sales pitch to buy yet another class. And another. And another ad nauseum.
The Pro Trader class supposedly had training on stocks primarily and also training on Forex, Options and Futures. Turned out that even the stock training was light and as for the rest it was just an advertisement for the other classes. Just enough to pique your interest, a glorified informercial during class time that we had paid for and then the so called counselor would come in and take us out to their office to nail us with their canned sales pitch that was right out of a tin can.
At the FOREX class (which was terrible), there was a heavy push for the Futures Class as well as sellinig other products. Futures class was promoting the Options class and the Options class was promoting the Pro Active class! Jeesh when does it end?
So are there really any legitimate companies out there that offer real training that is actually worthwhile? If there are, please ename at least one. Any real schools? Can they back up their claims with documented proof and do they have trainers who actually trade and know what they are talking about and are not booooorrrrrrriiiing?
=============================================
AM Bankus replies
Exactly my point. The focus is on constant upselling and the product that OTA offers is different in class than what is presented at initially at the PTW and thenin the closing room.
When I enrolled in college, I wasn't told that I would recieve one program and then when I showed up for class was presented something else. Also when I enrolled in business management, there was no upselling to another class ala OTA.
Another point, as a result of the education I recieve in college I now have a hefty networth to trade and invest with. which I am hoping to increase. When I went to OTA I was looking for education and on the surface they appear to be genuine --the real deal. Not so.
So if I enlighten just one person to at least thoroughly research OTA before writingt hem a check or whipping out their credit cards, then I have succeeded.
By the way, when I was at OTA there was one gentleman who actually got sucked into OTA's PASSPORT PROGRAM, a $65,000 program where you suposedly own everything. He got this on $1,000 down and only 18% interest. Later, others in the class found out that this same guy didn't even have enough cash to open a brokerage account with the broker that OTA recommends.
In another instance, at their PTW-Power Trading Workshop, the class of people were either very old, broke, looked dirty and one was even homeless who came in for a free meal! This guy was ingenius. We found out that he hangs out near OTA, set up a email account at the library which is in the same complex, registered himself online and used a local pay phone to call OTA on their 800 number. We found out that he had done this several times and OTA never discovered this. When they did they were furious.
I and a few others are trying to let people know ahead of time what OTA is all about. Hopefully a few of you are getting the point and at least are interested enough to completely check these guys out before you give them your money.
10-26-11 07:42 AM
I would have to agree with Bloomberg education is the key.
The problem is who do you believe. Find someone who is trading succesfully for guidance.
OTA is probably one of the better schools together with Jared Martinez's Market traders institute.
You have to then take what you are taught and apply it consistantly!
There are no shortcuts!------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fighting scams wrote:
I agree with Bloomberg too that education is key. I have never said anything against education and certaintly am not advocating ignorance.
As for OTA being one of the better schools, compared to who? Better Trades, Teach Me To Trade, Wade Cook, Larry Pino???? Who?
My experience with OTA was a bad one. Teachers were not that good and it was one big sales pitch with a lot of manipulation.
Calling them a school is quite a stretch.
I would like to know if there are any legitimate schools out there that really teach people how to trade successfully and treat people like people, have competent trainers with real counselors not used care salesmen and when you pay for a class, you get actual training, not just another sales pitch to buy yet another class. And another. And another ad nauseum.
The Pro Trader class supposedly had training on stocks primarily and also training on Forex, Options and Futures. Turned out that even the stock training was light and as for the rest it was just an advertisement for the other classes. Just enough to pique your interest, a glorified informercial during class time that we had paid for and then the so called counselor would come in and take us out to their office to nail us with their canned sales pitch that was right out of a tin can.
At the FOREX class (which was terrible), there was a heavy push for the Futures Class as well as sellinig other products. Futures class was promoting the Options class and the Options class was promoting the Pro Active class! Jeesh when does it end?
So are there really any legitimate companies out there that offer real training that is actually worthwhile? If there are, please ename at least one. Any real schools? Can they back up their claims with documented proof and do they have trainers who actually trade and know what they are talking about and are not booooorrrrrrriiiing?
=============================================
AM Bankus replies
Exactly my point. The focus is on constant upselling and the product that OTA offers is different in class than what is presented at initially at the PTW and thenin the closing room.
When I enrolled in college, I wasn't told that I would recieve one program and then when I showed up for class was presented something else. Also when I enrolled in business management, there was no upselling to another class ala OTA.
Another point, as a result of the education I recieve in college I now have a hefty networth to trade and invest with. which I am hoping to increase. When I went to OTA I was looking for education and on the surface they appear to be genuine --the real deal. Not so.
So if I enlighten just one person to at least thoroughly research OTA before writingt hem a check or whipping out their credit cards, then I have succeeded.
By the way, when I was at OTA there was one gentleman who actually got sucked into OTA's PASSPORT PROGRAM, a $65,000 program where you suposedly own everything. He got this on $1,000 down and only 18% interest. Later, others in the class found out that this same guy didn't even have enough cash to open a brokerage account with the broker that OTA recommends.
In another instance, at their PTW-Power Trading Workshop, the class of people were either very old, broke, looked dirty and one was even homeless who came in for a free meal! This guy was ingenius. We found out that he hangs out near OTA, set up a email account at the library which is in the same complex, registered himself online and used a local pay phone to call OTA on their 800 number. We found out that he had done this several times and OTA never discovered this. When they did they were furious.
I and a few others are trying to let people know ahead of time what OTA is all about. Hopefully a few of you are getting the point and at least are interested enough to completely check these guys out before you give them your money.
I will say this about OTA, most of us have/had lost 5k in the market before, the very basic stuff does work to a LIMITED extent, (but don't expect to earn a living on it) but it's no different then what can be found in some books totaling 100-150 bucks, much of it seems to echo the likes of velez ( I know I catch hell for bringing him up). As for the homeless guy who attended the seminar for the free lunch my hat is off to him for creativity. Perhaps sitting in the class room does help some people out when it comes to applying/learning the basics, but as we know the true pros seem to have a uncanny feel for the market which only comes from experience.( or perhaps mentors or very good logic??) And Let me conclude with this, the orginal owner near me traded, he was very good, I saw him in action several times and 3 of the 4 counslors also traded, they were also solid traders, I know them personally. I have no ax to grind with them this was my experince.
Pricey yes
Informative yes
Continueing ed yes
Worth it maybe
Would I look around more. yes
Would I do it again, doubtful
Pricey yes
Informative yes
Continueing ed yes
Worth it maybe
Would I look around more. yes
Would I do it again, doubtful
It's comical when people compare "educators" with professors. I could easily be an 18-year old kid with a blog, and sell ways to make money in the market. No exams, no barriers to entry (besides the very minimal), and all I need to do is SELL. I won't go into what it takes to finish a PhD program.
I am 99% certain the "educators" with OTA don't have to have their results audited, or even have a trading account EVER. They likely don't have a formal education on how to teach, simply on how to SELL and make the company money.
I've know many, many educators, and almost all care about one thing, "How much am I making via selling this stuff." Most admit it's almost impossible to teach trading; most will fail, but who cares just get their money and teach all you think is needed. But when the teachers don't make a living trading, i'm concerned.
And the saying "If you can, do...if not, teach." isn't exactly true when it comes to history, languages, medical school, etc...we do need teachers for certain things.
but paying money to fund someone else's trading account is comical.
I am 99% certain the "educators" with OTA don't have to have their results audited, or even have a trading account EVER. They likely don't have a formal education on how to teach, simply on how to SELL and make the company money.
I've know many, many educators, and almost all care about one thing, "How much am I making via selling this stuff." Most admit it's almost impossible to teach trading; most will fail, but who cares just get their money and teach all you think is needed. But when the teachers don't make a living trading, i'm concerned.
And the saying "If you can, do...if not, teach." isn't exactly true when it comes to history, languages, medical school, etc...we do need teachers for certain things.
but paying money to fund someone else's trading account is comical.
Dead Dog wrote....
Just for the record, I didnât fall for the high pressure get rich quick marketing scheme that you did. You would think that a well educated fellow with a business degree who already knows how to trade would recognise BS no matter how nicely it was wrapped. Didnât you pay attention in your marketing classes? Maybe you didnât pay attention, you did say you were bored didnât you, at the OTA classes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AM Bankus replies: Well at least we agree on one thing, that OTA is a get rich quick marketing scheme and yes I did fall for it.
But it does bring up the question, "Why are you here?" If I were Pro OTA your questions might make sense. You say you saw it as a get rich scheme too. Okay we agree on that. So what are you looking for?
As for reputable schools, DON'T EVER compare the crap that OTA peddles to a real school, college or University. Real schools have real teachers, professors who have real world experience who provide training that is application based, not just theory based.
It occurred to me when I was going to college, why not just read the books that are suggested and save the money for tuition? Then it also occurred to me that while books provide many answers, they also leave many questions. That is why they have teachers and college Profs. Not to mention that companies look for potential candidates with degrees, not just a lot of knowledge.
And that is why I got suckered in to OTA. I thought it was real world training, experiential training and the trainers would be first class like the teachers/Profs I had in college. Certaintly the price of education with OTA is right up there with colleges and the so called retake provision appealed to me.
Little did I know when I enrolled that the trainers would be so inept and the training so boring and basic that even novice traders who didn't know a stock from a rock found the training worthless.
And you are right. I don't know a lot about you. But I do respect higher education and get offended when people attack it. In your case, I have no idea why it didn't work. Perhaps you didn't go to an accredited university. Maybe it was a diploma mill Maybe the training was just theory based and the teachers were as horrible as the trainers at OTA or perhaps your grades were bad. I don't know. All I know is that I have done extraordinarily well with my education and take it personally when people put down higher education or have the audacity to compare higher education to the garbage that OTA is peddling.
Ok??
Just for the record, I didnât fall for the high pressure get rich quick marketing scheme that you did. You would think that a well educated fellow with a business degree who already knows how to trade would recognise BS no matter how nicely it was wrapped. Didnât you pay attention in your marketing classes? Maybe you didnât pay attention, you did say you were bored didnât you, at the OTA classes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AM Bankus replies: Well at least we agree on one thing, that OTA is a get rich quick marketing scheme and yes I did fall for it.
But it does bring up the question, "Why are you here?" If I were Pro OTA your questions might make sense. You say you saw it as a get rich scheme too. Okay we agree on that. So what are you looking for?
As for reputable schools, DON'T EVER compare the crap that OTA peddles to a real school, college or University. Real schools have real teachers, professors who have real world experience who provide training that is application based, not just theory based.
It occurred to me when I was going to college, why not just read the books that are suggested and save the money for tuition? Then it also occurred to me that while books provide many answers, they also leave many questions. That is why they have teachers and college Profs. Not to mention that companies look for potential candidates with degrees, not just a lot of knowledge.
And that is why I got suckered in to OTA. I thought it was real world training, experiential training and the trainers would be first class like the teachers/Profs I had in college. Certaintly the price of education with OTA is right up there with colleges and the so called retake provision appealed to me.
Little did I know when I enrolled that the trainers would be so inept and the training so boring and basic that even novice traders who didn't know a stock from a rock found the training worthless.
And you are right. I don't know a lot about you. But I do respect higher education and get offended when people attack it. In your case, I have no idea why it didn't work. Perhaps you didn't go to an accredited university. Maybe it was a diploma mill Maybe the training was just theory based and the teachers were as horrible as the trainers at OTA or perhaps your grades were bad. I don't know. All I know is that I have done extraordinarily well with my education and take it personally when people put down higher education or have the audacity to compare higher education to the garbage that OTA is peddling.
Ok??
Here is an interesting experience from a small trader on OTA:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/investm...acade/online-trading-academy-online-a7d3c.htm
First of all, let me start off by saying that I really should list this as entertainment or some other category than finance/investing. It would be funny and entertaining if it didn't cost so much.
I was invited to one of their Power Trading Workshops sometime ago. It was supposed to be on a Saturday morning. When I called, a guy with a thick New York accent tells me that the workshop was cancelled. Then he quickly tells me to hold on a minute. I heard him cover the mouthpiece and then he comes back and tells me that the workshop is on.
Needless to say, I was a little confused but drove across town from the Clermont area to Orlando where their office is located. It was a 50 minute drive one way on a Saturday morning.
When I get there I noticed that there was only one car in the parking lot. So I call again on my cell phone to make sure that I am in the right place. I am assured that I am and am prompted to come in which I did.
By the way, I forgot to mention that on their website this workshop was listed as "sold out" but when I arrived I was the first and only one there. So I walked into their office and was led to a b ack room by a older white guy with a thick Italian accent. This guy looked like he could have been part of the mafia.
A few seconds later, a younger black guy walks in and turns out he is the mouthpiece of the two. He welcomes me and begins his presentation at around 10:15am, about 15 minutes late. About this time two other guys walk in. They are seated and like me wondering where the heck everybody is since t his was supposed to be "sold out."
The black guy responds that the workshop was actuually cancelled but these two decided to run it anyway since I had called. And now that there were three of us, they had an event. Another guy asks why it was listed as sold out and the black responds that it "looks better" to say sold out.
I just laughed and started to wonder what else they may alter or say because it "looks better."
All three of us walked out after 20 minutes of this very impromptu and unprofessional event. To humor us we were invited back to another workshop that would be held the following week. I workd during the week and the next workshop was scheduled for Thursday. Turns out I was able to get off that day and was going to drive a friend to the Orlando airport whichi s only a few miles from the OTA facility.
So I went and this time the parking lot was full. The office had some people in it and the star presenter was a guy that flew in all the way from California. He was supposed to be an experienced trainer. Turns out he was a experienced presenter/speaker aka salesman. This guy started by telling us (a group now of about 8 people) that we would not learn how to make money, but how not to to loose money. WOW!
Then he went on to make wise cracks about CNBC, especially Jimmy Cramer. He showed two video's of Cramer. One called: Cramer -Manipulation s supposed underground video with Cramer saying some things you wouldn't expect and then another video where Cramer talks about how silly it is to sell Bear Stearns as it was about to be a takeover target. The presenter goes on to say that Cramer was half right, Bear Stearns was a takeover target but the stock dropped by 60 points before it happened. All of us were already aware of this and I failed to see the point to this other than the presenter trying to make a case against CNBC and Jimmy Cramer.
Next the presenter shows a chart of a stock that seriously reversed. He used this as a seqway to discuss shorting stocks. I had seen this exact same chart in a Bill O'Niel book. It wasn't news. I elbowed the guy next to me and said, "I bet he talks about the double top next." Didn't even get the words out of my mouth and the double top thing came out. This is nothing new.
He then goes on to talk about shorting and says that shorting is no riskier than buying stocks. ENT!
I beg your pardon! When you buy a stock, you risk your entire investment. There is limited risk. When you short, you in ieesence borrow money to sell a stock that you don't own. If the stock goes the opposite way (as it frequently does) you use your entire investment plus much more. Shorting has unlimited risk and you have to be precise. It is a fact that more people loose money by shorting than by buying stocks.
Next event was to talk down mutual funds and mutual fund managers. The presenter says that you can't make money in mutuals anymore. ENT! A quick look on the internet proved that I was right. Over the last three years, I found over 50 mutual funds that produced an annual return ov over 20%. In fact, I even found several mutual funds that are up over 25% over the last 6 months and one that is up 38% in the last three months. But this presenter, supposedly an expert says that you can't make money in mutuals anymore. BULL!
Next he throws up a chart of the S&P 500 from 1970 to 1999. He demonstrates how "buy & hold" used to work. Then he throws up a chart of the S&P 500 over the last 10 years which obviously shows a very choppy market including the crashes of 2000 and 2008. Funny why he didn't use alonger chart. Probably figured the longer time line would dilute the turbulence.
As we broke for lunch we were treated to a decent catered lunch with hot food. While I was eating, I was approached by one of the counselors, the older Italian guy. Who pulls me into an office and talks to me while I am eating. Just makes small talk at first. Then he begins to ask me about the seminar.
"Seminar? What seminar" I respond. This was a blatant sales pitch and very misleading at that. He then asks me if I learned anything from it. I respond only that this was a a high pressure sales pitch much like Time Share and I was turned off by it. I asked him when the strategies would be discussed. He commented after lunch. I politely asked him to let me eat in peace and after the third time he got the hint.
So I went back outside to the break area at which time another counselor, the black guy from the week before comes over. Same speel. Small talk and then right for the jugular. I told him that I just told his buddy to leave me alone. This guy was more persistent and downright rude. At this point the white guy came back and told his buddy that I wanted to see some strategies and then told me that this guy would show the trading platform after lunch. If the white guy hadn't come I would have walked out.
I went to use the restrooms. What a joke. You need a code to get in and once you get in, you'll wish you hadn't. The place was a mess with paper towels and toilet paper spread all over and residue of urine and fecal matter on the walls. Looked worse than a grade school restoom. I almosy upchucked my lunch.
I went outside to smoke a cigerette and spoke with some lovely girls who worked in the complex. They suggested that I watch my car. When I asked why I was told that some cars had been borken into and that other vandalism occurred here.
So as I was about to get in my car and leave, the black guy comes out after me and tells me that the seminar is about to continue and assures me that it will be worth my while and won't take long. So I figure, what the hell and go back in.
This young black kid pulls up the trading platform. He starts drawing charts with lines going all over the place. He appeared to know what he was doing untill he came back to the charts and since this was live trading on demo account while the market was open we could follow the stock trades. They all went in the opposite direction. Five of us were left and we all giggled. One guy yelled, "OOPS??"
Obviously this kid was not very skilled in what he was trying to do. Now the presenter comes back and tries to patch us this mess. He reviews the benefits of OTA. He tells us that this has a value of at least $14,000 and is usually sold for $6990 but we would be recieving a fast cash shcolorship of $2,000 bringing the price down to a "mere $4990", his words, not mine.
He tells us that there is a tuition reimbursement available if we put up another $5,000 and sign up with their broker recommendation. This tuition reimbursement is ajoke. You get a 20% discount on commissions which are already higher than the industry standard and you have to pay a $99 monthly fee. This broker also has the highest margin interest around. Did I forget to mention that during the "seminar" the presenter was very liberal about using margin and said it was safe?
At this point the black guy tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to follow him to the office. Here it comes I thought and boy was I right. Another high pressure sales pitch much worst than the first one.
I got so mad that I walked out and this guy, the black guy followed me outside to my car. Even while I am in my car, he motions to me like a cop to roll my window down. I ask him what the hell he wants and he responds, "Sure you won't change your mind." At which point I hit the gas pedal and peeled out.
My advice is to stay away from these guys. That is unless you really need an free meal real bad and are willing to be hit with high pressure selling tactics.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/investm...acade/online-trading-academy-online-a7d3c.htm
First of all, let me start off by saying that I really should list this as entertainment or some other category than finance/investing. It would be funny and entertaining if it didn't cost so much.
I was invited to one of their Power Trading Workshops sometime ago. It was supposed to be on a Saturday morning. When I called, a guy with a thick New York accent tells me that the workshop was cancelled. Then he quickly tells me to hold on a minute. I heard him cover the mouthpiece and then he comes back and tells me that the workshop is on.
Needless to say, I was a little confused but drove across town from the Clermont area to Orlando where their office is located. It was a 50 minute drive one way on a Saturday morning.
When I get there I noticed that there was only one car in the parking lot. So I call again on my cell phone to make sure that I am in the right place. I am assured that I am and am prompted to come in which I did.
By the way, I forgot to mention that on their website this workshop was listed as "sold out" but when I arrived I was the first and only one there. So I walked into their office and was led to a b ack room by a older white guy with a thick Italian accent. This guy looked like he could have been part of the mafia.
A few seconds later, a younger black guy walks in and turns out he is the mouthpiece of the two. He welcomes me and begins his presentation at around 10:15am, about 15 minutes late. About this time two other guys walk in. They are seated and like me wondering where the heck everybody is since t his was supposed to be "sold out."
The black guy responds that the workshop was actuually cancelled but these two decided to run it anyway since I had called. And now that there were three of us, they had an event. Another guy asks why it was listed as sold out and the black responds that it "looks better" to say sold out.
I just laughed and started to wonder what else they may alter or say because it "looks better."
All three of us walked out after 20 minutes of this very impromptu and unprofessional event. To humor us we were invited back to another workshop that would be held the following week. I workd during the week and the next workshop was scheduled for Thursday. Turns out I was able to get off that day and was going to drive a friend to the Orlando airport whichi s only a few miles from the OTA facility.
So I went and this time the parking lot was full. The office had some people in it and the star presenter was a guy that flew in all the way from California. He was supposed to be an experienced trainer. Turns out he was a experienced presenter/speaker aka salesman. This guy started by telling us (a group now of about 8 people) that we would not learn how to make money, but how not to to loose money. WOW!
Then he went on to make wise cracks about CNBC, especially Jimmy Cramer. He showed two video's of Cramer. One called: Cramer -Manipulation s supposed underground video with Cramer saying some things you wouldn't expect and then another video where Cramer talks about how silly it is to sell Bear Stearns as it was about to be a takeover target. The presenter goes on to say that Cramer was half right, Bear Stearns was a takeover target but the stock dropped by 60 points before it happened. All of us were already aware of this and I failed to see the point to this other than the presenter trying to make a case against CNBC and Jimmy Cramer.
Next the presenter shows a chart of a stock that seriously reversed. He used this as a seqway to discuss shorting stocks. I had seen this exact same chart in a Bill O'Niel book. It wasn't news. I elbowed the guy next to me and said, "I bet he talks about the double top next." Didn't even get the words out of my mouth and the double top thing came out. This is nothing new.
He then goes on to talk about shorting and says that shorting is no riskier than buying stocks. ENT!
I beg your pardon! When you buy a stock, you risk your entire investment. There is limited risk. When you short, you in ieesence borrow money to sell a stock that you don't own. If the stock goes the opposite way (as it frequently does) you use your entire investment plus much more. Shorting has unlimited risk and you have to be precise. It is a fact that more people loose money by shorting than by buying stocks.
Next event was to talk down mutual funds and mutual fund managers. The presenter says that you can't make money in mutuals anymore. ENT! A quick look on the internet proved that I was right. Over the last three years, I found over 50 mutual funds that produced an annual return ov over 20%. In fact, I even found several mutual funds that are up over 25% over the last 6 months and one that is up 38% in the last three months. But this presenter, supposedly an expert says that you can't make money in mutuals anymore. BULL!
Next he throws up a chart of the S&P 500 from 1970 to 1999. He demonstrates how "buy & hold" used to work. Then he throws up a chart of the S&P 500 over the last 10 years which obviously shows a very choppy market including the crashes of 2000 and 2008. Funny why he didn't use alonger chart. Probably figured the longer time line would dilute the turbulence.
As we broke for lunch we were treated to a decent catered lunch with hot food. While I was eating, I was approached by one of the counselors, the older Italian guy. Who pulls me into an office and talks to me while I am eating. Just makes small talk at first. Then he begins to ask me about the seminar.
"Seminar? What seminar" I respond. This was a blatant sales pitch and very misleading at that. He then asks me if I learned anything from it. I respond only that this was a a high pressure sales pitch much like Time Share and I was turned off by it. I asked him when the strategies would be discussed. He commented after lunch. I politely asked him to let me eat in peace and after the third time he got the hint.
So I went back outside to the break area at which time another counselor, the black guy from the week before comes over. Same speel. Small talk and then right for the jugular. I told him that I just told his buddy to leave me alone. This guy was more persistent and downright rude. At this point the white guy came back and told his buddy that I wanted to see some strategies and then told me that this guy would show the trading platform after lunch. If the white guy hadn't come I would have walked out.
I went to use the restrooms. What a joke. You need a code to get in and once you get in, you'll wish you hadn't. The place was a mess with paper towels and toilet paper spread all over and residue of urine and fecal matter on the walls. Looked worse than a grade school restoom. I almosy upchucked my lunch.
I went outside to smoke a cigerette and spoke with some lovely girls who worked in the complex. They suggested that I watch my car. When I asked why I was told that some cars had been borken into and that other vandalism occurred here.
So as I was about to get in my car and leave, the black guy comes out after me and tells me that the seminar is about to continue and assures me that it will be worth my while and won't take long. So I figure, what the hell and go back in.
This young black kid pulls up the trading platform. He starts drawing charts with lines going all over the place. He appeared to know what he was doing untill he came back to the charts and since this was live trading on demo account while the market was open we could follow the stock trades. They all went in the opposite direction. Five of us were left and we all giggled. One guy yelled, "OOPS??"
Obviously this kid was not very skilled in what he was trying to do. Now the presenter comes back and tries to patch us this mess. He reviews the benefits of OTA. He tells us that this has a value of at least $14,000 and is usually sold for $6990 but we would be recieving a fast cash shcolorship of $2,000 bringing the price down to a "mere $4990", his words, not mine.
He tells us that there is a tuition reimbursement available if we put up another $5,000 and sign up with their broker recommendation. This tuition reimbursement is ajoke. You get a 20% discount on commissions which are already higher than the industry standard and you have to pay a $99 monthly fee. This broker also has the highest margin interest around. Did I forget to mention that during the "seminar" the presenter was very liberal about using margin and said it was safe?
At this point the black guy tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to follow him to the office. Here it comes I thought and boy was I right. Another high pressure sales pitch much worst than the first one.
I got so mad that I walked out and this guy, the black guy followed me outside to my car. Even while I am in my car, he motions to me like a cop to roll my window down. I ask him what the hell he wants and he responds, "Sure you won't change your mind." At which point I hit the gas pedal and peeled out.
My advice is to stay away from these guys. That is unless you really need an free meal real bad and are willing to be hit with high pressure selling tactics.
What a morosely funny story. No doubt those salespeople were changeovers. Always threatened to be fired if they didn't do those shenanigans. It's always the top of these organizations whose behind the general tone of these MLM like sales and marketing programs.
I even had an email from Preston James organization which said they couldn't reach me by phone. (I'm glad I had changed my phone when I moved), so to please call them. Yeah right. If I did so my phone would be passed around Preston's sales army. I had 7 calls from different people throughout the year even bothering me at work. $6000 for the basic "mentoring", $10,000 for the classic. I had signed up for Preston's master trader online program. All it was , was bad calls on stocks using covered calls with some put protection which always ended up losers or eaten up by bad fills and over adjustments. I doubt he ever traded those live. I made sure I was canceled, and I still had access to the website! even though I don't really look at the bogus calls anymore. I was only checking if I was canceled. At least my credit card was not charged anymore anually, but looks like they moved on and don't even have anyone hired to enforce the website. The main program is the selling of "mentorships". The website is just a front to get your info and phone number on the phone list to pressure sale mentorships! And always with calls by what sounds like newly hired poor salespeople who don't know how to trade. A few months ago, I got spammed with email by Preston's organization to check out Karson Keith's new option trading program. It was "first mate" Karson who had a bad call on a chinese stock that costed me at least a thousand dollars the year before. I was dismayed to find out Karson's video was that of a some fast talking kid who didn't look over 24. and just pitching and pitching and pitching. Here's the last video that came in an email with the "midnight" deadline. After 20 or so of his pitching video links in the emails before. At first the pitch was like $1000 for the program, then "great deal" to halve that to $500. And now with this last email it's $97. No doubt, just an entry to more pushing for more "advanced" programs later on..
http://stockwizkid.kajabi.com/sp/6528-stock-wiz-kid
And here's the latest email I got from one of Preston's seemingly new hires:
""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Hoping to speak with you directly- Pirate office
Wayne Wiseman [waynew@tradersedgenetwork.com]
Hi < >,
Unfortunately, I have not been able to connect with you so I thought I send one last email. We know at some point you showed an interest in Option Trading by purchasing some of our materials.
I'd like to spend a few minutes with you and talk about your trading and introduce you to a very unique training opportunity. Most of what we offer, is offered to the open public, any one can purchase our materials. We'd like to chat with you about entering into an Internship with a professional trader, one on one. Unlike our study materials, the Internships we offer are not opened to the general public. We find too many traders, trade to win, not necessarily trade to make money (if you think about it, there's a difference). An Internship is for those people who are serious about making a lot of money through their trading. For these folks, trading is not a hobby, but a business that they take very seriously.
I'd like to invite you to give me a call. If this turns out not to be the right fit at this time, at least you'll know what to do to prepare for it down the road. I've set aside today and tomorrow to have these discussions.
I hope to hear from you.
Best Regards!
A. Wayne Wiseman
Director of Education
Pirates office:
801-769-8983
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I even had an email from Preston James organization which said they couldn't reach me by phone. (I'm glad I had changed my phone when I moved), so to please call them. Yeah right. If I did so my phone would be passed around Preston's sales army. I had 7 calls from different people throughout the year even bothering me at work. $6000 for the basic "mentoring", $10,000 for the classic. I had signed up for Preston's master trader online program. All it was , was bad calls on stocks using covered calls with some put protection which always ended up losers or eaten up by bad fills and over adjustments. I doubt he ever traded those live. I made sure I was canceled, and I still had access to the website! even though I don't really look at the bogus calls anymore. I was only checking if I was canceled. At least my credit card was not charged anymore anually, but looks like they moved on and don't even have anyone hired to enforce the website. The main program is the selling of "mentorships". The website is just a front to get your info and phone number on the phone list to pressure sale mentorships! And always with calls by what sounds like newly hired poor salespeople who don't know how to trade. A few months ago, I got spammed with email by Preston's organization to check out Karson Keith's new option trading program. It was "first mate" Karson who had a bad call on a chinese stock that costed me at least a thousand dollars the year before. I was dismayed to find out Karson's video was that of a some fast talking kid who didn't look over 24. and just pitching and pitching and pitching. Here's the last video that came in an email with the "midnight" deadline. After 20 or so of his pitching video links in the emails before. At first the pitch was like $1000 for the program, then "great deal" to halve that to $500. And now with this last email it's $97. No doubt, just an entry to more pushing for more "advanced" programs later on..
http://stockwizkid.kajabi.com/sp/6528-stock-wiz-kid
And here's the latest email I got from one of Preston's seemingly new hires:
""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Hoping to speak with you directly- Pirate office
Wayne Wiseman [waynew@tradersedgenetwork.com]
Hi < >,
Unfortunately, I have not been able to connect with you so I thought I send one last email. We know at some point you showed an interest in Option Trading by purchasing some of our materials.
I'd like to spend a few minutes with you and talk about your trading and introduce you to a very unique training opportunity. Most of what we offer, is offered to the open public, any one can purchase our materials. We'd like to chat with you about entering into an Internship with a professional trader, one on one. Unlike our study materials, the Internships we offer are not opened to the general public. We find too many traders, trade to win, not necessarily trade to make money (if you think about it, there's a difference). An Internship is for those people who are serious about making a lot of money through their trading. For these folks, trading is not a hobby, but a business that they take very seriously.
I'd like to invite you to give me a call. If this turns out not to be the right fit at this time, at least you'll know what to do to prepare for it down the road. I've set aside today and tomorrow to have these discussions.
I hope to hear from you.
Best Regards!
A. Wayne Wiseman
Director of Education
Pirates office:
801-769-8983
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""