Warning: Online Trading Academy (tradingacademy.com)

[wrbtrader]

Quote from Fighting Scams:

...No clients refer to this company as OTA, only employees. And I take exception to being referred to as a "basher" unless the definiton of a "basher" is someone who reports problems and poor service about a companies product or service...

I'll repeat, Baron owns EliteTrader.com and he himself has referred to this company as OTA. In addition, his business partner Joe that heavily moderates Elitetrader.com has also used the term OTA in reference to this company. In addition, many vendor bashers that have slammed OTA worst than you...they too refer to this company via the acronym as OTA.

You suggesting, that Baron, Joe, the thread starter of this thread (TraderZones) and many others in past threads about OTA are all employees including deaddog.

Please reply to the specific question above.

For example, here's a quote from a old thread I found via using ET search about Online Trading Academy (there are many other threads still open, closed or deleted by Baron or Joe).

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133304

The following traders in that thread by itself have used the acronym OTA. Thus, you're saying that all of them are also employees of OTA because clients do not use the acronym OTA ?

* Redneck (client)
* Bolimomo (client)
* mtrizzzz (client)
* rd92781us (client)
* chrisdunn (former employee)
* Gantra (didnt use them because its too much money)
* TheBestGuruEver (saids he doesn't like OTA, hates them
* deadbroke (recommends not to use them and save your money)
* PhiliC (used words like sleaze, BS, unscrupulous towards OTA)
* Cruiser1 (client)
* 4EXJOE (hates OTA)
* TraderZones (hates OTA)

Here's my point, I strongly doubt all the above are employees of OTA. In contrast, I believe many were clients or former clients as they stated in the thread. Also, I strongly doubt all the above are the same aliases of someone else in that thread that used OTA or hates OTA.

By the way, here's my definition of a basher. A basher is someone that randomly accuses anyone of being the company in question or supporting the company that's being discussed in a negative way. Bashers tends to be offended and make incoherent parallels about those that don't like the company when those that don't like the company questions statements made by the basher that absolutely has nothing to do with the company.

My point, bashers tend to alienate themselves even from those that hate the same company, rarely do they quote or agree with others that post negative commentary about the same company and bashers will often make strange/incoherent parallels (e.g. you must be any employee because you used the companies acronym instead of saying the entire name of the company). Therefore, there's a difference between someone that say they used the company and don't like them versus someone that said they used the company, don't like them and you must be them because you used the acronym OTA...

You are a basher of OTA.

Further, it has been proven that a few of Elitetrader.com most well known vendor bashers are actually the "competition" of the company in question or a disgruntle former employee that still has a chip on his/her shoulder (reference discussions about Traders International also known as TI). I say this only because Baron and Joe have mentioned such in the past or the vendor basher later admitted such on his/her own publicly here at ET.

Anyways, I believe I've seen at least a few hundred Elitetrader.com members use the acronym OTA in there sentences about that company...I did not know OTA had that many employees eventhough the link above contradicts what you said that "no clients" use the acronym OTA (sarcasm).

For the record, I don't like OTA, never used them and never will. However, based upon your logic, I must be an employee of OTA because I've used the acronym OTA so many times it's obvious. I also like to use the acronym TI for Traders International...I must be an employee of them too.

Lets take this further...what about the IRS also known as Internal Revenue Service...do you believe only employees of the Internal Revenue Service uses the acronym IRS. What about using the acronym FBI...would that imply I'm an employee of the Federal Bureau of Investigation whenever I write FBI. If so, I too want some of that stuff you're smoking.

Anyways, I'll stop it and leave you alone because I made my point now. Good luck with whatever it is you're trying to do and stay out of trouble to prevent ET management from getting involved in this thread.

 

[Redneck]

Yup, as Mark states

I attended and graduated from OTA

$5M says I am not an employee of theirs (or ever have been)

Any takers

RN

 

[deaddog]

Quote from Fighting Scams:Let me ask you a question. You say that you attended the "Freebie Workshops" but didn't enroll, was that because you saw what so many others who walked out saw, what I've been complaining about OR because you didn't have the money? OR perhaps because Online Trading Academy employees get to attend for FREE so you didn't have to pay???

I’m afraid you’re mistaken again, I’ve never attended a sales presentation or a Power trading Workshop. If you had read what I said you’d have seen that.

Deaddog:… The reason I haven’t taken a class or even attended the sales presentation is that their high pressure salespeople haven’t been able to convince me that I’d get value for my money

The high pressure sales is not limited to the presentations, mine came via the telephone after subscribing to the Free newsletter..

Quote from Fighting Scams:
And you claim you are not connected with Online Trading Academy as a staff member but want to know what could better and how to improve their services? That doesn't make any sense, unless you are an employee and if in fact your comments were true and you did attend their shirade called a Power Trading Workshop" then you would already know that.

No again that’s not what I asked. What I asked was what you specifically found wanting.
What did you expect to learn? What specific part of the course outline wasn’t covered? You say it was a scam. Can you be a little more specific as to what it was they didn’t deliver?

Quote from Fighting Scams:
So what was the reason you didn't sign up? Hmmmm? We already know. because you are an employee and don't have to pay. Or you didn't have the money. OR you saw what I had to attend the class to see. I doubt if it was the last reason.

If you had read what I said you already have the answer to this question.

Deaddog:… I’ve learned many lessons from the market, at a cost more expensive than OTA is charging. I don’t want to pay for those lessons again. When I asked if OTA had a method of determining if taking the course would be a waste of my time, not to mention my money, they just suggested that I take the advanced course. That response along with some research on the web has convinced me that I would not get much value for dollars invested.

Quote from Fighting Scams:
And how come no comments about the black dude that wears the fancy clothes (all gifts from relatives) claims he makes $2,000 a day trading futures when in fact he only trades in a demo account and is broke. Tells everyone he drives a $140 Mercedes when in fact he rides to work in a $375,000 bus. Hey what's up what that crap?

Never been to Florida; didn’t think it warranted a response.

Quote from Fighting Scams:
So let me guess, you are the supposed VP that Gino Lollabragetta guy right aka riffpatrol and God knows how many other aliases. Why else would you be so adamant on rebutting me and everyone else who has come before me with absolute b.s. answers?

Another erroneous assumption; I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
You don’t pay attention.
You have a preconceived opinion of what is real.
You make a lot of assumptions that you register in your mind as facts
You are prone to manipulating what others say to fit your perception of what is real.
You have difficulty admitting that you might be wrong.
These attributes may be fine in some endeavors but unless you change your way of thinking and be willing to accept what you are being told with an open mind the market will eat you up.
Maybe they taught you that in your course but you weren’t paying attention.

 

[Fighting Scams]

WRB TRADER WROTE...


Here's my point, I strongly doubt all the above are employees of OTA. In contrast, I believe many were clients or former clients as they stated in the thread. Also, I strongly doubt all the above are the same aliases of someone else in that thread that used OTA or hates OTA.

By the way, here's my definition of a basher. A basher is someone that randomly accuses anyone of being the company in question or supporting the company that's being discussed in a negative way. Bashers tends to be offended and make incoherent parallels about those that don't like the company when those that don't like the company questions statements made by the basher that absolutely has nothing to do with the company.

My point, bashers tend to alienate themselves even from those that hate the same company, rarely do they quote or agree with others that post negative commentary about the same company and bashers will often make strange/incoherent parallels (e.g. you must be any employee because you used the companies acronym instead of saying the entire name of the company). Therefore, there's a difference between someone that say they used the company and don't like them versus someone that said they used the company, don't like them and you must be them because you used the acronym OTA...

You are a basher of OTA.

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It has been noted that this is your definition of a basher whichis fine, however, it does not identify me.

And your other hypothesis does not answer the fact that Online Trading Academy employees were overheard admitting that they come on message boards like this one and others pretending to be "Happy satisfied clients" in some cases they responded on the internet and their IP addresses were traced to their OTA office locations!!! ha,hah, ha.

Sorry I'm not a basher but if it makes you feel better to call me one and create multiple aliases to try to defend your position fine.

The ALL STAR EVENT next week should be fun and interesting!

 

[deaddog]

Quote from Redneck:

Yup, as Mark states

I attended and graduated from OTA

$5M says I am not an employee of theirs (or ever have been)

Any takers

RN

At what point in your investment life did you attend?
Do you feel you got value for the dollars invested at the time?

 

[Fighting Scams]

DEAD DOG WROTE:

Another erroneous assumption; I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
You don’t pay attention.
You have a preconceived opinion of what is real.
You make a lot of assumptions that you register in your mind as facts
You are prone to manipulating what others say to fit your perception of what is real.
You have difficulty admitting that you might be wrong.
These attributes may be fine in some endeavors but unless you change your way of thinking and be willing to accept what you are being told with an open mind the market will eat you up.
Maybe they taught you that in your course but you weren’t paying attention.

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IN NLP (Neuro Linquistic Programming) this is called a reframe. Bill O'Reilly calls it "spinning"

Can I prove that you work for OTA? No. Not at this time. However your constant coming back with rebutals connects you. Why else would you be here? Hmmm? Not to mention that you refuse to answer my questions.

I know that OTA employees get to go to classes for free and I also know that they are required to go because that is where they get bullets for their sales pitches.

You say you made $5m thanks to OTA or perhaps that was an alias, careful, Teach Me To Trade got busted for doing that. If in fact a OTA client really made that much trading, prove it via confirmation slips, statements or tax returns.

I've done well trading so I know money can be made. My point is that no one I spoke to at Online Trading Academy was making any money, especially the employees and the trainers.


Like I said before, you may have scared others off or perhaps they just realized that you are so full of yourself and walked away
I'm here for the duration.

 

[Fighting Scams]

Trader zones wrote...

Warning: Online Trading Academy (tradingacademy.com)

As I know that newbies sometimes scan on ET looking for info about companies offering expensive courses, this post is targeted to them.

I received a card in the mail for this organization. 5 hour trading free course + bonuses for free. I usually attend these, + hotel seminars, out of curiosity to see how they preach to the sheep (Investools, WizeTrade, BetterTrades, etc.). They are all pretty much the same, and pour out scorn on their competitors, at the same time.

I answered almost all the questions he kept posing to the 20 people in attendance, so they seem to target neophytes. They kept saying "experienced traders are the hardest to convince" DUH - that is because they know how to ask hard questions and demand proof.

What do the courses basically cover? For something like $6,000, this 7 day course is basically a regurgitation of gap analysis, TA patterns (wedge, pennants), and other things. You can get these in many different TA books Plus you "get to work with their master traders on live market data" to see these things in action. Funny, the only evidence that these master traders were good, were high praise from the presenters. Never any verifiable evidence to backup their "master" status.

And they have courses in forex, futures, stocks and options. Likely, you learn the same patterns/methods in 4 different ways. You can spend $24,000 to $64,000 on all their stuff. Retakes are free (except I think a $99 registration fee)

He constantly talked about how "their past customers love us" but NEVER talked about their customers documented success or offered proof of sucess of any kind. Just a few hour spiel designed to get you to sign up before you leave - similar to the other hotel seminar companies - they want you to sign up while you are stil pumped, and before your normal skepticism kicks in. I tried to talk 2 people out of their purchase, and 1 took me seriously.

The wet-behind-the-ears course presenter (a recent grad of some of their courses, as were their "counsellors") tried to pump me for my own performance and preferences (which I believe is legal only for CTAs/RIAs - discussing someone's personal trading)

And then he bragged he was doing 10-15% returns a month. Said "for a few months." Of course, he never proffered his own trading results, or audited results from company traders, or broker statements, etc.

You can google on the company + use scam or ripoff. You will find some reports to this effect. Only 2 BBB reports, but at least a handful of things on some scam reporting websites.

Expanding rapidly, they rented out cheap space (think off-the-beaten track former manufacturing facility in a partly deserted office park) that was REALLY hard to find.

If it was a couple hundred, might be worth it for a TA lover who wants to see things in action. But many thousands??? For an unproven company that offers no proof? To learn something almost straight out of books????

OF course, we never received the bonuses...

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I would agree with this and only add that it is lame compared to what goes on in Orlando

 

[deaddog]

Quote from Fighting Scams:

Can I prove that you work for OTA? No. Not at this time. However your constant coming back with rebutals connects you. Why else would you be here? Hmmm? Not to mention that you refuse to answer my questions.

Not much happening in the market and I'm bored. This debate is entertainment for me. I know I should get a life but what is is what is.

As for the questions:
Sorry I must have missed them. I can only answer what I know to be true. No I'm none of the guys you think I am. I don't believe we ever met, I've never been to Florida but hear it's a nice place to winter. I'm not a OTA employee or for that matter a student.
I only post as Deaddog;

Quote from Fighting Scams:
You say you made $5m thanks to OTA or perhaps that was an alias,

You'd have to point that post out to me.
How many times do I have to tell you I haven't taken any courses from OTA.
What kind of person do you think would read my posts then rush out and enroll at OTA? Point out one post that even suggests you might get value for your money?

Quote from Fighting Scams:I've done well trading so I know money can be made. My point is that no one I spoke to at Online Trading Academy was making any money, especially the employees and the trainers.

Why is it important that the instructors or the employees are making money? What should be important is whether what they teach can help you make money. You still haven’t given me a specific example of how they failed to teach what they promised in the course outline.

Quote from Fighting Scams:
Like I said before, you may have scared others off or perhaps they just realized that you are so full of yourself and walked away
I'm here for the duration.

Stubbornly holding on to position will kill you in the market.

 

[wrbtrader]

Quote from deaddog:

Not much happening in the market and I'm bored. This debate is entertainment for me. I know I should get a life but what is is what is...

Hey deaddog,

Please put Fighting_Scams on ignore via clicking on his user name and then click "Add Fighting_Scams to your ignore list". It makes no sense to continue replying to this guy or gal. Seriously, there's "nothing to gain" via your continue debating with this person that has some strange "incoherent parallels" as I pointed out earlier involving him/her accusing everyone of being an employee of OTA via the belief only employees use the acronym OTA instead writing out the entire words Online Trading Academy.

Also, the fact that he refused to reply to my questioning about the use of the acronym OTA and the fact he has accused me of having another alias in this thread are the "only" reason why I have now put him on my ignore list to get rid of that eyesore. Therefore, I highly (strongly) recommend you do the same because he has refused to answer your questions.

Simply, you've made your point and so has Fighting_Scam.

Anyways, Fighting_Scam is either TraderZones, disgruntle former employee or one of OTA competition. If he's a former client (not possible via his own logic that clients don't use the acronym OTA), he's at the wrong forum to voice his opinion/experiences considering he should be at forums where OTA are sponsors and not at forums where most traders seem to not care at all about OTA or never heard of them because OTA isn't a sponsor of the forum.

Last of all, I've seen how Baron (ET owner) and Joe react to threads like this. They will either close it or move it to chit chat section if you two continue debating like this...seriously...the first step in that direction was that someone (as usual in cases like this) did move this thread from the top of the forum out of the "Trading" section down below into the "Education Resources" section. It was an obvious move (a welcome one) that the continued arguments beyond the initial stated facts is bothering ET management or moderators considering this thread had originally been at the top for a long time period.

 

[Fighting Scams]

Spinn wrote:

I have a friend who works at one of these, he has been around trading forever 10-15 years but has never made any money at it, as far as I can tell.

Hes is a good guy but stuck in the trap of not having any relevant skills, as he spent so much time effort and money trying every half baked method in existence.

I guess he is now training others to spend their lives chasing semi successfil methods.
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Calling what they teach "semi successful is being kind. LOL