I think you'll find that the Captain is very much aware the system is the problem. To expand, many conservatives will be easily swayed to seeing their "side" or "team" being complicit in the overall problems this country is facing. You will have a much harder time convincing those on the left, as they typically choose "team" over "values".
Warning from Chomsky to left: ANTIfa is bad strategy
- Thread starter Jack.Yarn
- Start date
I think you'll find that the Captain is very much aware the system is the problem. To expand, many conservatives will be easily swayed to seeing their "side" or "team" being complicit in the overall problems this country is facing. You will have a much harder time convincing those on the left, as they typically choose "team" over "values".
You are doing it again. Left vs Right. I am not your enemy, the system is of which the support of it, it's oxygen, is in center politics - the very tiny people that run it. Note that I am not saying they are evil - they are simply getting up in the morning and going to work. They just don't see they are complicit because they don't want to rock the boat they are in. They cannot see past their own nose.
Cut it out.
I'm not doing anything other than pointing out the varying degrees of how hard it is going to be to convince both sides of who the real enemy is. I've been there for a while now.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Promise yourself that when you write "left" or "right", you are going to erase it and come up with a different way to state your point without inciting anger.
That is an interesting concept, but simply changing the words doesn't change the meaning. How would you like to refer to those who lean left in politics, and those who lean right? It is no more a descriptor than up and down, just applied to people's standing on an issue or group of issues.
I understand where the "hang up" is - I am in the same place of discontinuity.
FIRST A DISCLAIMER: We understand that often, in fact more often than not, the course of history is unstoppable even when it is obvious to everyone that the course they are on will lead them over a cliff - and there is nothing we can do to stop them from taking us with them. So a certain humble stance of resignation makes everyday living possible against the tyranny of having to coexist with people whom have descended into irrationality.
But it also cowardly to stand by and say nothing. The only thing that I have found works is to point to egregious inequities and admit guilt on all sides. Not because it is true or false, but to get a human brain back to thinking rationally - and most important, to remove opinion where data should eradicate our bias.
For example, a right wing person says: "I am tired of paying taxes for lazy bums that want to live off welfare".
I counter: Do you know that you have to work 30 hours to get welfare, otherwise you lose it?
They counter: Why don't they work 40 hours like the rest of us?
I counter: It used to be that way. As the system has forced households to have both members of a family to go to work to make ends meet, there is no division of labor anymore. So moms, who are often single and are a huge proportion of the people on welfare, can't handle the cost of being at work and picking up their children from school.
They counter: That's not my problem.
I counter: Then you are ok with a system, a nation that is the richest in the history of the world, where 40%, that is about 100,000,000 million people, are living in poverty. Many of them helpless children?
Now, one of two things happen at this point. Either the person stops and there is a certain discomfort that is evident because they are thinking and you have reached a moral center, or they continue with talking points they are regurgitating from God knows where. They are not problem solvers, unfortunately stuck in a vicious loop of bias.
If the latter, I realize they are too far gone to discuss with them the root of the problem. To get them thinking - How did we get here?. Doesn't mean they are a lost cause, just that I am not able to bring them to a rational point where solving the problem becomes possible.
If the former, something happens to their eyes, and I can spot it a mile away.
The economic problems have nothing to do with right/left [I can't avoid writing it]. It is the system itself that is broken in the economic case and actually easily solved.
Now, on issues like abortion, there are going to be a farther divide between right/left [can't avoid writting it] because rationality doesn't really enter into it like it does in economic issues.
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Ok, but you have to make sure you counter with factual information. You do not need to work 30 hours to obtain welfare.
Your methodology is sound, however. And I agree, fault must be admitted on both sides, and we have to be willing to go after frauds, criminals and liars on both sides as there are more than enough on both sides to bring down.
The benefits are a hornets nest to understand and vary by state:
- The orange/yellow you have to work to get help. Notice that in Bernie Sanders home state, you have to work to get help. No free handouts.
- God bless the more progressive states in blue, but that may be counter productive.
- And notice the sea of gray in the bible belt.
The disaster today, when people need it the most since the Depression!:
https://www.cbpp.org/research/famil...ance-programs-are-weakening-despite-increased
And going through the menu items on this page this is a maze:
https://www.usa.gov/benefits
https://www.usa.gov/finding-home
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The benefits are a hornets nest to understand and vary by state:
- The orange/yellow you have to work to get help. Notice that in Bernie Sanders home state, you have to work to get help. No free handouts.
- God bless the more progressive states in blue, but that may be counter productive.
- And notice the sea of gray in the bible belt.
The disaster today, when people need it the most since the Depression!:
View attachment 177024
https://www.cbpp.org/research/famil...ance-programs-are-weakening-despite-increased
And going through the menu items on this page this is a maze:
https://www.usa.gov/benefits
https://www.usa.gov/finding-home
This is true, it does depend on the program. But in general welfare does not require work to receive.
Petition urging terror label for Antifa gets enough signatures for White House response
Published August 21, 2017
Fox News
A petition put up just days ago urging the Trump administration to label the left-wing Antifa a “terror group” has attracted well over the 100,000 signatures needed to merit a formal White House response.
The left-wing group has been the subject of intense scrutiny in recent days after President Trump controversially blamed “both sides” for the violence in Charlottesville, where a counter-protester at a white supremacist rally was killed in a car attack.
Trump’s criticism of violence on the “alt-left” was seen as a swipe at groups like Antifa, whose “anti-facist” members have been known to clash with groups ranging from Trump supporters to white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Trump was hammered for seeming to equate Charlottesville counter-protesters with neo-Nazis – but in the days since, Antifa’s tactics at other rallies have been the subject of numerous media reports.
The White House petition, posted by someone going only by the initials, “M.A.,” called for Antifa to be “formally” recognized as a terror group.
It states: “Terrorism is defined as ‘the use of violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims’. This definition is the same definition used to declare ISIS and other groups, as terrorist organizations. AntiFa has earned this title due to its violent actions in multiple cities and their influence in the killings of multiple police officers throughout the United States. It is time for the pentagon to be consistent in its actions – and just as they rightfully declared ISIS a terror group, they must declare AntiFa a terror group – on the grounds of principle, integrity, morality, and safety.”
It was posted on the White House petition site, whose rules say any petition getting over 100,000 signatures in 30 days will be reviewed and get an “official response. “
As of late Monday, it had over 160,000 signatures, after having been posted Aug. 17.
Antifa leaders contend their aggressive tactics are used only to fight hatred and racism.
Published August 21, 2017
Fox News
A petition put up just days ago urging the Trump administration to label the left-wing Antifa a “terror group” has attracted well over the 100,000 signatures needed to merit a formal White House response.
The left-wing group has been the subject of intense scrutiny in recent days after President Trump controversially blamed “both sides” for the violence in Charlottesville, where a counter-protester at a white supremacist rally was killed in a car attack.
Trump’s criticism of violence on the “alt-left” was seen as a swipe at groups like Antifa, whose “anti-facist” members have been known to clash with groups ranging from Trump supporters to white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Trump was hammered for seeming to equate Charlottesville counter-protesters with neo-Nazis – but in the days since, Antifa’s tactics at other rallies have been the subject of numerous media reports.
The White House petition, posted by someone going only by the initials, “M.A.,” called for Antifa to be “formally” recognized as a terror group.
It states: “Terrorism is defined as ‘the use of violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims’. This definition is the same definition used to declare ISIS and other groups, as terrorist organizations. AntiFa has earned this title due to its violent actions in multiple cities and their influence in the killings of multiple police officers throughout the United States. It is time for the pentagon to be consistent in its actions – and just as they rightfully declared ISIS a terror group, they must declare AntiFa a terror group – on the grounds of principle, integrity, morality, and safety.”
It was posted on the White House petition site, whose rules say any petition getting over 100,000 signatures in 30 days will be reviewed and get an “official response. “
As of late Monday, it had over 160,000 signatures, after having been posted Aug. 17.
Antifa leaders contend their aggressive tactics are used only to fight hatred and racism.