Warning: Don't trust IB's TWS Portfolio page or Trades Report for positions

[OldTrader]

Quote from tmarket:

I am not sure why it is so difficult to explain this to you, apparently you have never kept your TWS running overnight.

There is a difference between TWS on your PC logging off and TWS server resetting at 12AM Eastern. When the server comes back, your TWS is still running and it will reconnect to the server automatically. There is then a problem of the server running in syn with your TWS. The following picture may help.

OK, I get it now. A long time ago I changed the log off time to 12:00 Midnight Eastern. So what happens is that at Midnight my TWS logs off. Evidently the server reset takes place at or around the time my TWS is logged off. Later, if there is something I'm watching, I log back on. So the bottomline is that in my case my log off time and server reset are at the same time, and therefore I was not aware of what you were describing.

In terms of orders, I generally do not like to trade afterhours, but occasionally I leave an order in. Then I shut TWS down. When I turn TWS back on in the AM, if there was an execution I hear the ding when TWS opens. But I always look in the Account Window under the portfolio section to check that. Up to now at least there has been no problem.

By the way, I did read the links you provided. Very helpful. But if I understood correctly IB has already corrected the issue. Is that not the case?

OldTrader

 

[Hoi]

Quote from OldTrader:

Just to clarify, I only said I hadn't experienced tmarket's problem.
..........
In fact, facts always get my attention.
.........
OldTrader

There are problems in rare situation with odd conditions, which are painful facts for the unfortunate trader. This kind of problems cannot easily be reproduced by You nor me and even not by IB. But still they exist.
Just because they have devistating consequences they should be handled as "the problem exist until proven wrong by the perpetrator (IB)" instead of "the problem doesn't exit until the victum proves it is a fact".

The by "tmarket" described problem is such a case. I have seen it by one of our clients (ButtonTrader), and because it has severe consequences I analyzed the matter to the bottom. I cannot reproduce the problem myself (although I tried), but when I read the FIX-logs I see very clearly that Executions ar not reported by the IB-server.

Quote from OldTrader:
Most of us here don't have your level of expertise on these matters. But we all have certain tools which are helpful, such as the audit trail, perhaps screen shots of the situation, etc.. With these types of tools you can show the problem, rule out certain types of problems, etc etc. That's the only reason I posted to this thread to begin with.
.........
OldTrader [/B]

Correct: any trader should have a screenshot program installed and running in background (we use Snagit). So he can make pictures with one key-stroke {be aware that you will be in some level of panic when something painful happens, and have no clear mind nor the time to take a screenshot when you haven't already running such software}.
Further he should switch on by default, the audit trail.

Quote from OldTrader:
That, the the fact that I have not had a problem with positions. But again, I use the account window to check my position, not the portfolio page. In fact, I rarely have ever looked at the portfolio page.
OldTrader [/B]

Be aware the the Portfolio page is filled by another data-stream (and server) than the AccountWindow. Both systems can give trouble and might run out-of-sync. Your beloved account-window updates his info for instance once per 3 minutes (if it doesn't get triggered earlier by the execution-Servers).
In otherwords: when you want to be as sure as possible: wait 3 minutes, then check Portfolio and AccountWindow (make screenshots, so you can compare next day), and log-off to close your trading day

 

[spellman21]

i am in the process of opening an account with IB; this thread has me a little skeptical.

There are this many issues with trade executions-people not knowing if the actual trade went through? And erroneous reporting of positions?

 

[Stosh]

Quote from spellman21:

i am in the process of opening an account with IB; this thread has me a little skeptical.

There are this many issues with trade executions-people not knowing if the actual trade went through? And erroneous reporting of positions?

All things considered, they offer great value. There are a lot of things wrong with my wife that I have been trying to fix over the last 40 years......I'll keep trying and I'm not leaving. Stosh

 

[pspr]

IB is the only "online" broker I have ever used. Several years ago I had an order error that was a TWS problem but IB would never admit to the problem nor would they correct my trade.

I also have a current problem with TWS freezing and having a login problem several times throughout the day. This has cost me many times as I can't enter or exit a position manually when this is happening. One time TWS reported a I had a valid limit order to exit but price traded through the limit without execution. I had to call IB to close the trade. Fortuneately, price was still better than my limit.

Later, looking at my audit trail it showed the limit order was never accepted. For some reason it said "rejected" in the AT but showed active in TWS. I've since unchecked the box in the API settings (I use bracket trader) that says to assign negative numbers to third party order. I've been told that setting as a big problem when using the API.

Now that I can't trust that TWS is accurately reporting my position I guess I'll be checking my website account at the end of every day.

It's always something!

 

[Kicking]

IB is great untilyou have a problem with them. CS has improved , it's not that bad all in all but the are a few repsyou don't want to deal with, in particular some girl who hung up on me several times. The worst people at IB are their programmers.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from Hoi:

There are problems in rare situation with odd conditions, which are painful facts for the unfortunate trader. This kind of problems cannot easily be reproduced by You nor me and even not by IB. But still they exist.
Just because they have devistating consequences they should be handled as "the problem exist until proven wrong by the perpetrator (IB)" instead of "the problem doesn't exit until the victum proves it is a fact".

The by "tmarket" described problem is such a case. I have seen it by one of our clients (ButtonTrader), and because it has severe consequences I analyzed the matter to the bottom. I cannot reproduce the problem myself (although I tried), but when I read the FIX-logs I see very clearly that Executions ar not reported by the IB-server.

I agree with most of your post. This aspect of it though I have trouble with. If you think it's tough to prove a problem exists, try proving that it doesn't exist.

All I'm suggesting is that every trader should do what they can to provide info to IB that is helpful to IB in showing, isolating, or identifying the problem. As I know you know, every problem that occurs is not necessarily something stemming from a problem on IB's end. Some have to do with the traders lack of knowledge on the TWS. Some have to do with the traders connection, or perhaps his computer. And indeed, some problems have to do with IB themselves.

What I'm suggesting is that it is incumbent upon each of us to have and use the audit trail and screenshot software at a minimum. (I also use snagit). While this might not reproduce the situation, it can rule things out, show that a condition existed. In other words, I don't think it is enough for the trader to simply start screaming at IB and make posts on ET every time he has a problem.

Take this situation for instance. As I understand it, a trade was made, but the position did not show. Certainly the audit trail should have shown the trade. But screenshot of the portfolio page, account window, or trade page evidently would not show the position. While this does not re-create the problem, it certainly would show the problem's existence to IB.

Put it anther way, as a customer I want to have something to show IB other than just talk.

OldTrader

 

[powerfade]

Quote from spellman21:

i am in the process of opening an account with IB; this thread has me a little skeptical.

There are this many issues with trade executions-people not knowing if the actual trade went through? And erroneous reporting of positions?

I have been an IB customer for about 3 years. I was in the same boat as you; I had serious trepidation about opening an account, based solely on what I read here. Eventually, though, I had to try it out, since here in Canada our choices are very limited and I needed to be able to trade anything I wanted out of one account.

I have had no problems whatsoever.

Having said that, please do not be mislead by people like OldTrader. I have him on ignore but I know he's here. He probably has no idea who the member 'Hoi' actually is, but I can assure you that you can believe what Hoi has to say above anyone in this thread. If Hoi says there are occasionally problems with IB software which can easily impact your equity, you can rest assured it's true.

Quote from Hoi:
The... "tmarket" described problem is [real]. I cannot reproduce the problem myself (although I tried), but when I read the FIX-logs I see very clearly that Executions ar not reported by the IB-server.

You simply have to make a decision - is what they offer you important enough that you will take the chance that their buggy software may cause you problems. Like I said, nothing has happened to me so far but a quick search of this forum shows that when something does happen, IB's first and second response will be to to tell you to go to hell. This is SOP when lawyers advise their clients and for IB - admit no error even if it's absurd to do so.

Many of the IB problems and 'IB screwed me' threads are the result of user error. This one is not.

Last point - during the recent turmoil, I was (very) glad that my money was with IB.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from powerfade:



I have had no problems whatsoever.

Interesting comment, in light of your statements in your other posts like:

TWS is constantly misreporting my positions and my P & L.

Or this one:

The biggest problems I've had with TWS were just after Java updates when everything went haywire

So much for consistency. Yet you counsel people to not be "misled by people like OldTrader". LOL! Your statements are as misleading as they get. Do you have problems or don't you?

Here's the bottom line. I'm persuaded by Hoi and others that in fact there has been a problem. Obviously all of us have not experienced the problem, since evidently the problem is brought on by a set of specific circumstances that everyone does not do. I have not had this particular problem.

My only advice to people is that they use tools that enable them to show, isolate, or illustrate the problem, like audit trails and screen capture software.

Finally, I have been an IB customer for about 9 years. I've been trading for around 40 years. This gives me plenty of perspective about how good IB is. They are the best broker I've ever dealt with...and I've dealt with a bunch. Has my experience with IB been problem-free? No. But more importantly, I've had problems with every broker I've ever dealt with. And just as importantly, IB corrects their problems.

OldTrader

 

[Hoi]

Quote from powerfade:


a) You simply have to make a decision - is what they offer you important enough........
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b) IB's first and second response will be to to tell you to go to hell.
......

To end my part in this interesting thread:

a) Yes, IB's offerings are for us the best we can get (and this for already 9 years and still becoming better).
We only wished that IB would slow down their release-agenda substantially and used this time for professional testing and quality assurance. That would have prevented 90% of the issues reported here in ET and else where....

b) I can tell you that they are listening and are helpful to solve the problems we have reported them. I actually can report that their attitude is significantly changed since last year and more focused to solve problems quickly.