Warning: Don't trust IB's TWS Portfolio page or Trades Report for positions

[powerfade]

Quote from OldTrader:
blah blah blah

I see you got the point. Next time a member posts that IB refused to compensate him and then caved in after a bit of coaxing, please refrain from posting one of your 'what's the matter with you, IB is the best and can do no wrong, why isn't anyone else complaining' threads. Please. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will appreciate it. The rest of us can continue with an objective discussion of TWS and IB.

On Ignore.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from powerfade:

I see you got the point. Next time a member posts that IB refused to compensate him and then caved in after a bit of coaxing, please refrain from posting one of your 'what's the matter with you, IB is the best and can do no wrong, why isn't anyone else complaining' threads. Please. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will appreciate it. The rest of us can continue with an objective discussion of TWS and IB.

On Ignore.

Please give me a link to any "objective" post regarding TWS and IB that you have made. They seem to have escaped me.

OldTrader

 

[TigerBalm]

I've had a similar experience to that of the OP after I upgraded to the new TWS. The Portfolio page showed an extra position in an SKF option. I panicked for 5 minutes, and 10s of things went over my mind : did I type in the wrong number? did they screw up in their new Combo trader? Is it a GUI bug or did they really trade one extra option? Let me check the Audit report and see....

Luckily, I got my wits together and restarted TWS and voila, correct position number! Unbelievable that such bugs are allowed to escape QA.

From past experience, I knew that it would not be worth it chasing it up with their customer-is-always-wrong service.

Someone please take it to the NFA if you have the energy to fight them.

 

[powerfade]

Quote from TigerBalm:

Luckily, I got my wits together and restarted TWS and voila, correct position number! Unbelievable that such bugs are allowed to escape QA.

TWS is constantly misreporting my positions and my P & L. I usually call in and ask them to clarify. Until now, my actual position/P & L has never been anything other than what I thought it was. I have never bothered to ask them what's going on. All I would get from them would be 'Have you upgraded to the latest version of TWS?' [answer - are you insane? Why would I take a risk like that??], or 'Have you updated your Java recently?' [answer - are you insane?? The biggest problems I've had with TWS were just after Java updates when everything went haywire and you guys eventually admitted that the newest version of TWS 'doesn't like' Java updates and told me to roll Java back!!].

My biggest problem is that I use a third-party front end for TWS, and if anything goes badly wrong, the conversation with them is going to begin and end right there. 'Third party app?', they'll say. 'Sorry, your losses are your own'.

 

[tmarket]

Quote from OldTrader:

I don't suppose that it occurred to you that some folks might have a different view of things that you do....that it doesn't represent a personal stake and/or position in IB. LOL.

How did you leave your TWS "running for overnight sessions" with experiencing the midnight server disconnect?

OldTrader

I am curious as to how much of a position you have in IB, just a percentage of your portfolio will do. I have no position in IB or any other brokers.

I suggest you try leaving your TWS running overnight (make sure you set the mandatory automatic log off properly so that it will keep running), if you are really interested in reproducing this problem. TWS, if running at around 12AM Eastern, will get disconnected from the TWS server at that time for a few minutes to tens of minutes. TWS will not shut down, but try to reconnect by itself. It will often be successful, apparently, at the reconnection. The problem is, sometimes, the next trades you do in next session will not show up in TWS. You can place an order and it gets filled and there will be no indication of the fill. Sometimes, there will be an audio indication of fill, but no such fill showed up in TWS until you restart TWS.

This is an indication that the TWS server is out of sync with TWS running on your PC.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from tmarket:

I am curious as to how much of a position you have in IB, just a percentage of your portfolio will do. I have no position in IB or any other brokers.

I don't have a position in IB or any other brokers, or any other stocks at all. I've never had a position in IB. I did have a position in MER at one time, both long and short. I've also traded MS and GS from the long side at one point.

I'd say well over 90% of my trading is in the ES.

Again, the fact that my view differs from yours or others doesn't mean I have a position.

I suggest you try leaving your TWS running overnight (make sure you set the mandatory automatic log off properly so that it will keep running), if you are really interested in reproducing this problem. TWS, if running at around 12AM Eastern, will get disconnected from the TWS server at that time for a few minutes to tens of minutes. TWS will not shut down, but try to reconnect by itself. It will often be successful, apparently, at the reconnection. The problem is, sometimes, the next trades you do in next session will not show up in TWS. You can place an order and it gets filled and there will be no indication of the fill. Sometimes, there will be an audio indication of fill, but no such fill showed up in TWS until you restart TWS.

This is an indication that the TWS server is out of sync with TWS running on your PC.

I always leave TWS running until it shuts off at 11:00PM CST. It automatically shuts TWS down. Sometimes I restart it later, sometimes I don't restart it until the following morning, depends on what I'm doing. I'm trying to recall whether it has tried to restart on it's own...I don't think it has because when I want to reopen TWs it's always completely shut down. I have to click on the icon. I'm using standalone.

I have not had the problem you describe. By the way, I have rarely looked at the portfolio page either, so if it's been off, I wouldn't know. I only look at the account window. It's never been off on money, P&L, or position that I can recall. I deleted the P&L from the main TWS display window years ago...I found it distracting. But recently I opened a new Jts file, which wiped out all my settings. I noticed then that the P&L on the main display window was completely wrong...not even close. I just deleted it since I wasn't interested in keeping it there anyway. At the same time the account window P&L was correct.

OldTrader

EDIT:

I follow about 90 stocks on quote pages. I watch them to get a feel of the market. One of the stocks I watch is IB. But the reason I watch it is so that if it makes an outsized move I know so that I can check the news, in case it might have an impact on my account. The stock I have traded most in the last year is NEM, but that trading is dwarfed by my trading in the ES.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from TigerBalm:

I've had a similar experience to that of the OP after I upgraded to the new TWS. The Portfolio page showed an extra position in an SKF option. I panicked for 5 minutes, and 10s of things went over my mind : did I type in the wrong number? did they screw up in their new Combo trader? Is it a GUI bug or did they really trade one extra option? Let me check the Audit report and see....

Luckily, I got my wits together and restarted TWS and voila, correct position number! Unbelievable that such bugs are allowed to escape QA.

From past experience, I knew that it would not be worth it chasing it up with their customer-is-always-wrong service.

Someone please take it to the NFA if you have the energy to fight them.

Did you look at your account window in the portfolio section? Or just the portfolio page?

By the way, I'm interested, if you took it to the NFA, what exactly would you be reporting them for? A software bug?

OldTrader

 

[Hoi]

Quote from tmarket:

I am curious as to how much of a position you have in IB, just a percentage of your portfolio will do. I have no position in IB or any other brokers.

I suggest you try leaving your TWS running overnight (make sure you set the mandatory automatic log off properly so that it will keep running), if you are really interested in reproducing this problem. TWS, if running at around 12AM Eastern, will get disconnected from the TWS server at that time for a few minutes to tens of minutes. TWS will not shut down, but try to reconnect by itself. It will often be successful, apparently, at the reconnection. The problem is, sometimes, the next trades you do in next session will not show up in TWS. You can place an order and it gets filled and there will be no indication of the fill. Sometimes, there will be an audio indication of fill, but no such fill showed up in TWS until you restart TWS.

This is an indication that the TWS server is out of sync with TWS running on your PC.

To OldTrader: generally I like your comments and posts as well-advised and reasoned. But in this thread I have some doubts....

The problem described above by "tmarket" is real. I have analyzed (on FIX message level) such a case recently, and can 100% confirm it is present.
I have reported this, together with another case, to IB-programming and they are working on this as we speak.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from Hoi:

To OldTrader: generally I like your comments and posts as well-advised and reasoned. But in this thread I have some doubts....

The problem described above by "tmarket" is real. I have analyzed (on FIX message level) such a case recently, and can 100% confirm it is present.
I have reported this, together with another case, to IB-programming and they are working on this as we speak.

Thanks for the info. Very helpful.

Just to clarify, I only said I hadn't experienced tmarket's problem. As a matter of fact, I'm still trying to figure out how he gets his TWS to reconnect after the system disconnect at 12:00 Midnight. LOL!

In fact, facts always get my attention. And while I don't know this for certain, I would guess Hoi that when you present IB with one of these problems, you present them with a situation that you have documented in some way. You have alluded to that here in your post.

Most of us here don't have your level of expertise on these matters. But we all have certain tools which are helpful, such as the audit trail, perhaps screen shots of the situation, etc.. With these types of tools you can show the problem, rule out certain types of problems, etc etc. That's the only reason I posted to this thread to begin with.

That, the the fact that I have not had a problem with positions. But again, I use the account window to check my position, not the portfolio page. In fact, I rarely have ever looked at the portfolio page.

It is gratifying to know that IB is working on the problem. Thanks for the post.

OldTrader

 

[tmarket]

Quote from OldTrader:

.... As a matter of fact, I'm still trying to figure out how he gets his TWS to reconnect after the system disconnect at 12:00 Midnight. LOL!
......
OldTrader

I am not sure why it is so difficult to explain this to you, apparently you have never kept your TWS running overnight.

There is a difference between TWS on your PC logging off and TWS server resetting at 12AM Eastern. When the server comes back, your TWS is still running and it will reconnect to the server automatically. There is then a problem of the server running in syn with your TWS. The following picture may help.