Want to see how America is changing? Property taxes hold the answer

[ET180]

A straight wealth tax would be the best of all. Nobody can ever tell me what the rate would be though and pretty gritty when you get down to the details. 1% of total net worth? 10%? 18.9%? per year, maybe 10 years to pay, so in 2026 you would finally pay off 2016 liability. Because some of that net worth is very difficult to liquidate.

If that happened, there would be a mass exodus of wealthy people and some country somewhere (probably Hong Kong, Singapore, China, most central and south American counteries) would happily welcome those people and the wealth that they bring. Also, more time and energy would be spent on hiding wealth (gold, bitcoin) than obtaining it. A wealth tax would really discourage work much more than an income tax. Why work or take risk if given enough time, the government will eventually take away all the compensation earned. I'm sure some country will try it though...maybe it's not too late to buy Bitcoin.

There's some study that throughout US history, no matter what the tax rate, no more than some rate...I think it was 20% of GDP is collected. That means that at some point, higher tax rates lose their effect. Have to google it though, I don't recall the exact study.

 

[java]

If that happened, there would be a mass exodus of wealthy people and some country somewhere (probably Hong Kong, Singapore, China, most central and south American counteries) would happily welcome those people and the wealth that they bring. Also, more time and energy would be spent on hiding wealth (gold, bitcoin) than obtaining it. A wealth tax would really discourage work much more than an income tax. Why work or take risk if given enough time, the government will eventually take away all the compensation earned. I'm sure some country will try it though...maybe it's not too late to buy Bitcoin.

There's some study that throughout US history, no matter what the tax rate, no more than some rate...I think it was 20% of GDP is collected. That means that at some point, higher tax rates lose their effect. Have to google it though, I don't recall the exact study.

yeah that sounds about right. I'm not real big on pay as you go. I like a system which first lets people make it unobstructed. Then after the kids are raised they can pay for it all. Oh well, pay me now or pay me later I guess it's all the same. It's just every penny meant a lot more when I was struggling and now I pay a lot more but it doesn't seem so bad.

 

[ET180]

yeah that sounds about right. I'm not real big on pay as you go. I like a system which first lets people make it unobstructed. Then after the kids are raised they can pay for it all. Oh well, pay me now or pay me later I guess it's all the same. It's just every penny meant a lot more when I was struggling and now I pay a lot more but it doesn't seem so bad.

I think what would make more sense is if everyone pays for their own education through long-term, perhaps subsidized low-interest rates to be paid back in the future (we already do this for college). Then allow the interest and principle repayments to be tax-deductible from future income. Provide a way for students to test out of school. Basically, if a student can pass the GED, they can skip high school and go straight to college. Provide a way for students to simply skip high school if they are not serious and go into a trade school route (many trades are still very profitable). Lots of ways to get a GED or go to community or other college later once / if student desires.

 

[Sig]

Wait, "well educated population"? What country are you talking about? The US spends more money on education than any other country and we're ranked somewhere around 29 for math and science. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...school-students-slide-in-math-reading-science

I never said anything about social security, veterans, medicare, or bedpans. Those are not funded by property taxes. But since you brought it up, I'm putting more money into social security than the average American and since it's bankrupt I'd be lucky to get a dime out of it 30 years from now when I supposedly qualify. Although I've thought about trying to self-identify as a 70 year old American in an attempt to collect social security early, but our culture isn't quite there yet. Maybe in 5 years. What I don't understand is why you set such low expectations for people that they have to depend on others for retirement. Why do we assume that people can't be expected to save up enough money for retirement? I can understand and support supporting those who are mentally or physically unable to care for themselves (especially veterans) as long as it wasn't a consequence of poor life choices (smoking, obesity, drug use, alcoholism, etc.). But where does the extremely low expectation that most people will need to depend on others to change bedpans and will not have saved up enough to pay for it come from? Why assume that everyone is dependent on a small minority of people?

In any case, nothing that we say here matters. People can vote for as much entitlements (from other people) as they want and anyone can leave whenever they want (although may have to pay an exit tax for the next 10 years). The fact is we're headed towards a sovereign debt crisis and we're losing the competitive culture that made America the only world superpower (hence, why we're ranked around 29th in math and science). It's a cultural and demographic problem. The symptoms are rising debt and eventually a lower standard of living (which hopefully will be somewhat offset by technological advancements especially in medicine...hopefully).

All those things are done by other people's kids my friend. At some point, someone else's kid is going to risk their life to protect you. It's in your selfish best interest that we have a pool of well educated people to do that. At some point you're going to need someone to insert a catheter for you, it's in your own selfish best interest to have a pool of well educated people who are eligible to get an RN degree to do that for you. If you ever start a business, it's in your own selfish interest to have a pool of educated employees. I could go on and on, but it's undeniable that everyone in our society benefits when everyone's kids have at least a basic, solid k-12 education. Even if they're somebody else's kids. Not to mention I don't know many 6 year olds who've made "poor life choices" because their parents can't afford to send them to school so they have to either go without or start indentured servitude at the ripe age of 6.

 

[ET180]

All those things are done by other people's kids my friend. At some point, someone else's kid is going to risk their life to protect you. It's in your selfish best interest that we have a pool of well educated people to do that. At some point you're going to need someone to insert a catheter for you, it's in your own selfish best interest to have a pool of well educated people who are eligible to get an RN degree to do that for you. If you ever start a business, it's in your own selfish interest to have a pool of educated employees. I could go on and on, but it's undeniable that everyone in our society benefits when everyone's kids have at least a basic, solid k-12 education. Even if they're somebody else's kids. Not to mention I don't know many 6 year olds who've made "poor life choices" because their parents can't afford to send them to school so they have to either go without or start indentured servitude at the ripe age of 6.

I can't deny that the quality one's parents have a huge impact, probably the greatest, on the success or failure of their children. Although there is a solution to bad parenting. Society is just too permissive towards it and we all end up paying for it. It's a choice. But while you seem to be obsessed with bedpans and catheters, you can't explain why one can't simply pay for those services someday with money that they have saved up. I can't use your same argument, walk into a grocery store, grab a few items and walk out of the store without paying claiming to the cashier that someday I'll be there for him! It's not like all those people you mention are working for charity. They get paid just like we do. I also never advocated living in an uneducated society. I pointed out with concern that we're around 29th in the world in math and science despite spending far more on education than any other country. But going back to property taxes, why should a person who lives in a $50k house have to pay more in property taxes than the person living in the $25k house? Considering your concern, won't on average, the $50k occupant consume a similar amount of catheters as the $25k occupant? Won't they drive, on average, a similar amount of miles (although that's also covered by a gas tax) or use a similar amount of libraries, parks, and emergency services?

 

[newdog]

Money is the answer.
There is a new wave of the super rich flexing their muscles as they now have one of their own in The White House. The rich used to buy politicians but now some are also politicians.
Their greed is inexhaustible.
The 19th century robber barons had their day and were then rejected, now they are having another go. Everything will be for sale including allies.

Government by democrats are the biggest thieves. They raise taxes and feed the people who don't work to maintain the vote bank. A good government actually wants to reduce your taxes and lower the size of it. Current administration actually is doing both of the above.

Looks like you are reading too much CNN. Rich or poor they were voted in by the people. It's the globalists who have bought the MSM and politicians and we were being forced choice of Clinton, Barry and Soros who were secretly talking about dismantling the US border totally for free flow of labor across nations. If you don't believe in democracy and voting by people through rules set by constitution, there is Syria and Middle East for you

 

[java]

The best government would be one so small and unnoticable that taxes and benefits would rank very low when it comes to locating, with economy/safety/climate ranking right up there.

 

[RosyScenario]

What I don't understand is why you set such low expectations for people that they have to depend on others for retirement. Why do we assume that people can't be expected to save up enough money for retirement? I can understand and support supporting those who are mentally or physically unable to care for themselves (especially veterans) as long as it wasn't a consequence of poor life choices (smoking, obesity, drug use, alcoholism, etc.). But where does the extremely low expectation that most people will need to depend on others to change bedpans and will not have saved up enough to pay for it come from? Why assume that everyone is dependent on a small minority of people?

Well put.

 

[Sig]

I can't deny that the quality one's parents have a huge impact, probably the greatest, on the success or failure of their children. Although there is a solution to bad parenting. Society is just too permissive towards it and we all end up paying for it. It's a choice. But while you seem to be obsessed with bedpans and catheters, you can't explain why one can't simply pay for those services someday with money that they have saved up. I can't use your same argument, walk into a grocery store, grab a few items and walk out of the store without paying claiming to the cashier that someday I'll be there for him! It's not like all those people you mention are working for charity. They get paid just like we do. I also never advocated living in an uneducated society. I pointed out with concern that we're around 29th in the world in math and science despite spending far more on education than any other country. But going back to property taxes, why should a person who lives in a $50k house have to pay more in property taxes than the person living in the $25k house? Considering your concern, won't on average, the $50k occupant consume a similar amount of catheters as the $25k occupant? Won't they drive, on average, a similar amount of miles (although that's also covered by a gas tax) or use a similar amount of libraries, parks, and emergency services?

My point has gone way over your head or your ignoring it. You are complaining about our society paying for educating everyone's kids, you don't think you should have to pay for your education if it's not for your own children. You're too short sighted to see that even for your own selfish interests its optimal for your neighbor's children, and everyone else's children, to have a solid K-12 education. Since you're probably willfully ignoring that point, I'll assume you must agree.

 

[java]

Or, education should be so cheap anyone with an internet connection can get it if they want it.