Want opinion on collective2

[emg]

i am familiar with C2 and heard a lot of negative reviews. That is common for a 3rd party vendors to get tons of negative reviews like scam, fraud, etc etc

The sole reason why C2 is getting negative reviews because they are a 3rd party vendors meaning they are not regulated by the gov. That means, they can do whatever they want to do. They can change, omits, and delete testimonials, results, performance. They can create a banner stating "guarantee profit, no risk, everybody making money using this system, etc,etc, etc" The 3rd party can cheat, lies, and steal because they are not REGULATED!.


Who knows C2 is a good company or not. We will never know

 

[OddTrader]

Quote from emg:

i am familiar with C2 and heard a lot of negative reviews. That is common for a 3rd party vendors to get tons of negative reviews like scam, fraud, etc etc

The sole reason why C2 is getting negative reviews because they are a 3rd party vendors meaning they are not regulated by the gov. That means, they can do whatever they want to do. They can change, omits, and delete testimonials, results, performance. They can create a banner stating "guarantee profit, no risk, everybody making money using this system, etc,etc, etc" The 3rd party can cheat, lies, and steal because they are not REGULATED!.


Who knows C2 is a good company or not. We will never know

Perhaps not entirely true:

Q
Who we are

Collective2 "went live" in 2003. Over the past seven years, we have analyzed over 14,000 trading strategies. We are based just outside New York City, and are subject to U.S. laws and regulations. We are registered with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) as a CTA and are members of the National Futures Association.
UQ

 

[Pekelo]

As usually, you are a complete moron and you even contradict yourself:

Quote from emg:

i am familiar with C2....

Who knows C2 is a good company or not.

So you obviously are NOT familiar with C2. Otherwise you would know if it is a good idea or not...

The idea of C2 is great, but it is basicly a platform provider (just like ET) and the real value is added by the users/vendors. So as long as the vendors' systems suck, the website can not be great.

And also there are technical issues like subscribers getting the same or similar fills like the vendor and such, but those would exist with any other sites....

The best to look for a swing trading system with relative few trades and going for bigger gains/longer holding period. This way even if your fill isn't exactly the same as the vendor's you still make money.

For example talking about futures, if a system trades 2-3 times a day max. and going for 2-3 ES points, (and uses stops too) that can be subscribed to profitably. Or system with days as holding periods, even better.

 

[goodgoing]

Quote from fjpenney:

Putting your trading system in the public domain will focus your attention on its design and performance like never before. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

Good thing? I might as well recommend this post of yours as the dumbest for 2010 and beyond. I am sorry to say that. Nothing personal.

Putting a trading system or its signals in the public domain is a guarantee for it losing it's edge, if it has any. What do you end up with? A few hundred dollars in your pocket, which you may have to return when it stops working because if you ever noticed, you owe money to collective2 if people ask for refunds. As a matter of fact, their agreement says that your are liable for any amount collective2 decides.

I think platforms like collective2 provide unique proof that there are a lot of dumb people around who do not know simple arithmetic. Ask yourself this: whywould you want to make a few people rich who pay you $50/mo and risk losing your edge? It won't be too long before people figure out exactly how your system generates its signals especially if it is a trend-following one. All it takes is some machine back-engineering after about 30 trades. Then your system will be theirs. They won't need you. You will be left with $500 in your pocket and they may even ask for a rebate if they hit a loser.

 

[southbeach4me]

Quote from bearmountain:

I was very close to listing a system, then I received an email from C2 that customer credit card and personal information was stolen or compromised. You have to give a CC number when you list a system to get paid. So I backed off. Probably a one time thing. I am considering giving it a try again soon.

I'm curious myself as to why they need a system designers cc# for him to get paid. If there is no other way to do it, then its safer to open a seperate checking acct at another bank(not the one you presently use), fund it with no more than $500, and use the visa debit card you are given to use as the cc# that cc2 requires.

.... my 2 cents

 

[fjpenney]

goodgoing: You are entitled to your opinion regardless of how little sense it makes.

I have seen this comment about reverse engineering before. If someone has the technical prowess to reverse engineer a system (good luck with that), why in the world wouldn't they develop their own, better system?

 

[bearmountain]

Quote from sysdev1:

I would gladly pay my listing fee, I only I had an answer to a simple question: if my system ranks among 5% top systems, what subscription income should I expect? Will that income exceed my listing fee (which is $196/year) ?

This link may offer an answer to your question. The listing fee is $98 for six months. A small amount imo to pay to try them out. You may learn a lot about your system and yourself.

https://www.collective2.com/static/systemDeveloper.htm

Earn money selling your signals. With over 37,000 registered users, and hundreds of millions of dollars of automated transactions flowing through our platform each week, Collective2 is the dominant trading system platform. If your system performs well at C2, you will make money. How much? That obviously depends on your system, but we can give you some benchmarks: top systems on Collective2 earn between $9,000 and $15,000 per month in subscription revenue. Almost half of systems that are profitable have earned at least $1,000 in subscription revenue.*

 

[Pekelo]

I nominate your opinion as the dumbest of 2010. Before you put someone else down, it doesn't hurt if you are actually correct.

Quote from goodgoing:

Putting a trading system or its signals in the public domain is a guarantee for it losing it's edge, if it has any.

My ass. That is a myth. (your opinion, not my ass) Let's say I am long of anything and anything is liquid enough, then why would it hurt my position that lots of followers also get long??? Actually that is needed if I want anything's price to raise...

 

[Pekelo]

To make money out of C2 it is easier to look for a decent system and subscribe to it, then trying to list yours. It is really hard to get enough subscribers to make it worthwhile. Sure, one can make a few hundred bucks, with a fairly decent system, but you are not in it for a few hundred bucks, are you? (specially if your system requires lots of time)

Quote from C2 website:

Earn money selling your signals. With over 37,000 registered users,
..... top systems on Collective2 earn between $9,000 and $15,000 per month in subscription revenue.
Almost half of systems that are profitable have earned at least $1,000 in subscription revenue.*

I guess today I have to play mythbusters:

1. 37K registered people, ever, through the years. Just like ET has 100K registrations (about 200 of them Surf's) that doesn't mean active users. The number of active users is probably 10% of it, or even less.

Mind you, lots of users also means lots of vendors, and that is competition for your system.

2. Maybe a few top systems once in a while earned 9K-15K a month, but I really doubt anyone is pulling that consistently. It is possible, but the bottomline is, that you as a vendor should expect much less. Also building a trackrecord takes time, determination, stamina and consistent profitability.

3. I simply don't believe the last sentence of the quote. Anyone can make a fairly profitable system, but you won't get automaticly $1000 for it....

 

[fjpenney]

Pekelo: Your points are valid from my experience.

One other thought - I suspect that some of the system developers have their trading systems on C2 in order to develop objective, third party performance statistics that they can take to a hedge fund, etc when applying for a trading position.

If anyone wants to get a sense of how difficult it is to design and apply a great trading system, just filter out the systems that are less than two years old. Very few of the trading systems make it past the two year mark.

By the way, you can designate a system as a "Test" system which will provide you with private performance stats if you wish to paper trade a system. Designing a system which has a great backtest is one thing. Applying and sticking to the system is another matter.