They want the money. Of every 100 that makes it on to the Street, only 1 will ever become a banker. The rest either remain clerks or else are forced to seek alternative employment as many are now discovering they must.
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Wall Street or bust
- Thread starter mingsphinx
- Start date
They want the money. Of every 100 that makes it on to the Street, only 1 will ever become a banker. The rest either remain clerks or else are forced to seek alternative employment as many are now discovering they must.
Quote from Corey:
Being one of those 'ivy league' brats, I stopped by one of the investment clubs. They are laughably bad.
On the other hand, there are quite a few bright students who have started more private clubs -- which require a bigger buy in, but tend to use much more complex strategies, normally involving derivatives (which most of the regular investment club attendees barely understand)...
It seems that the club the article discusses does not happen to be one of those clubs.
But as a whole, the number of students who have decided they want to be 'i-bankers' is just ridiculous. Every single business major I talk to is trying to get a job on Wall Street.
On the other hand ... I bet these students are a lot better than most analysts (not that they make much of a base line...)
Yeah... these students are better than most analysts. And I can be a neurosurgeon because you know, I am such a brainiac and all. How many of these so called brighter students are even financially literate? Can they even read much less understand a set of financial statements? What value can be found when ignorance meets up with ignorance?
None of the real players who are going to move our world will ever join these asinine clubs. Only shallow and desperate poseurs will ever start or join one of these "we reject 4 out of 5 applicants" tools for social exclusion.
some kids really want it beyond what the average aspirant is aware of. someone has to do the job - it's just a saturated space
in undergrad i was studying with kids who were already well into their cfa before graduation. at the time i was thinking 'you've gotta be kidding' but that's how some kids roll. raised that way, smarter, better informed, family history, not sure
in undergrad i was studying with kids who were already well into their cfa before graduation. at the time i was thinking 'you've gotta be kidding' but that's how some kids roll. raised that way, smarter, better informed, family history, not sure
Quote from mingsphinx:
Yeah... these students are better than most analysts. And I can be a neurosurgeon because you know, I am such a brainiac and all. How many of these so called brighter students are even financially literate? Can they even read much less understand a set of financial statements? What value can be found when ignorance meets up with ignorance?
None of the real players who are going to move our world will ever join these asinine clubs. Only shallow and desperate poseurs will ever start or join one of these "we reject 4 out of 5 applicants" tools for social exclusion.
The clubs generally serve two purposes. The first is to teach the financially literate how to become literate. The second is to allow those who are financial literate to discuss topics of finance outside of the classroom. Not everyone studies business undergrad and knows where to begin their journey -- so these clubs teach them the fundamentals of valuation so that they can begin learning on their own. The clubs aren't just picking stocks -- they are discussing macroeconomics, business trends, as well as identifying and evaluating specific companies.
Have you ever heard of the Skull and Bones? I would venture a guess that their greatest secret is that there is no secret; there is no great conspiracy. Quite simply, if you choose the top fifteen students of every graduating class and make them best friends, you develop a very enabled and connected business and social network. It is no surprise that they are going to end up in powerful positions -- they are the top fifteen students from one of the top schools in the nation -- and on top of that, they have a very connected alumni organization.
This network already exists, in a broader sense, among top schools -- there is a reason i-banks actually travel to the ivy leagues to interview intern candidates. Now these private investment clubs are essentially doing the same thing (whether they realize it or not). They are getting the best and brightest together and using each other as leverage to work there way up the ladder.
The more general investment clubs? Not so much. But what is wrong with people getting together to do something they enjoy? What gives you the right to judge them?
As I said, I attended a meeting -- it was bad. Very bad. But if they enjoy doing it, they will learn. And those that don't won't cut it anyway.
Well, with long term career prospects for being outsourced existing in almost any field, and the killings you can make short term in investment banking or trading, do you blame these kids?
Same thing occured in late teens - early 20's germany after the war depression. There was no point in doing productive labor, so everyone turned to speculation. Sad, really. The age of the Schieber. Doesn't feel too far away, actually.
Back when I was in my ivy league uni, we had a similar association - it was called a fraternity. However, since we only had wealthy parents, and weren't given any of that money (to build 'character'), we focused on other pursuits (which were more fun, really). This must be the new variation.
Never tapped into skull & bones or porc, so couldn't tell ya anything about it.
Same thing occured in late teens - early 20's germany after the war depression. There was no point in doing productive labor, so everyone turned to speculation. Sad, really. The age of the Schieber. Doesn't feel too far away, actually.
Back when I was in my ivy league uni, we had a similar association - it was called a fraternity. However, since we only had wealthy parents, and weren't given any of that money (to build 'character'), we focused on other pursuits (which were more fun, really). This must be the new variation.
Never tapped into skull & bones or porc, so couldn't tell ya anything about it.
Quote from drsteph:
Back when I was in my ivy league uni, we had a similar association - it was called a fraternity. However, since we only had wealthy parents, and weren't given any of that money (to build 'character'), we focused on other pursuits (which were more fun, really). This must be the new variation.
Never tapped into skull & bones or porc, so couldn't tell ya anything about it.
The fraternities are still much the same: they provide social outlets for the students. Given that typical fraternities have several hundred chapters and several thousand alumni, they typically don't have a tight enough bond to create any cohesive business network. That is where business fraternities have come in.
Many schools, however, don't have greek life or business fraternities -- which is where these exclusive clubs come in. They fill the same gap -- just in a professional manner.
As far as skull & bones or porcellian -- can't say I really have any deep insight into those, but I know people in quill & dagger and sphinx head. They are your typical over ambitious student. Generally picked from the same positions every year: school paper editor, inter-fraternity council president, et cetera.
By the way, Theodore Roosevelt started a finance club during his time at Harvard...
These kids are just imitating their parents by starting clubs that advertise exclusiveness. What can the illiterate hope to learn from the illiterate? It is about trying to distinguish class mediocrity from base mediocrity. By saying that I am in and you are out, an artificial line is drawn which seems to define the elect over the losers. Thankfully, the market does not work that way. No matter what affiliation you claim, get it wrong and you will still lose your money.
Financial markets actually favor the loner over the club loving socialite. People who would spend their time joining clubs will probably not get down and dirty to do the things that they need to do in order to understsand the market. In order to climb that steep learning curve the one thing people must do is read. Kids who are reading the financial section of the newspaper or the Journal will get a leg up. Walk into the library and pick up any number of books on the market and you will benefit far more than joining any club. Go the distance and actually start reading financial statements and you are already starting to be an investment banker.
The point is that there is absolutely no need for hard working and driven individuals to join these clubs. None of the people whom we would respect as greats in the financial world would ever have joined one of these clubs for the simple reason that almost all of them were simply not popular in school. A guy like Warren Buffett probably could not have gotten in even if he wanted to.
Financial markets actually favor the loner over the club loving socialite. People who would spend their time joining clubs will probably not get down and dirty to do the things that they need to do in order to understsand the market. In order to climb that steep learning curve the one thing people must do is read. Kids who are reading the financial section of the newspaper or the Journal will get a leg up. Walk into the library and pick up any number of books on the market and you will benefit far more than joining any club. Go the distance and actually start reading financial statements and you are already starting to be an investment banker.
The point is that there is absolutely no need for hard working and driven individuals to join these clubs. None of the people whom we would respect as greats in the financial world would ever have joined one of these clubs for the simple reason that almost all of them were simply not popular in school. A guy like Warren Buffett probably could not have gotten in even if he wanted to.
With the worst Wall Street job market in recent memory, I am glad that most of these kids will fail.
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lol, those are the ones that will survive. It is the ET community that will fall.
Wake up, read between the lines. Think about where the "markets" are going. Look at the thin spreads, look at the technology, look at order flow, look at the "Quants" and their methods.
My money is on the "Smart Kids", not ET.
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lol, those are the ones that will survive. It is the ET community that will fall.
Wake up, read between the lines. Think about where the "markets" are going. Look at the thin spreads, look at the technology, look at order flow, look at the "Quants" and their methods.
My money is on the "Smart Kids", not ET.
Quote from mingsphinx:
Financial markets actually favor the loner over the club loving socialite. People who would spend their time joining clubs will probably not get down and dirty to do the things that they need to do in order to understsand the market. In order to climb that steep learning curve the one thing people must do is read. Kids who are reading the financial section of the newspaper or the Journal will get a leg up. Walk into the library and pick up any number of books on the market and you will benefit far more than joining any club. Go the distance and actually start reading financial statements and you are already starting to be an investment banker.
These are kids that are reading financial books, taking financial classes, and reading news papers. But on top of that, they are spending the time trying to discuss and debate economic issues. Instead of debasing their conversations by accepting less intelligent participators, they create exclusive groups.
Really, I don't see what the big deal is. If it makes them happy, why does it bother you so much?
Don't you see the irony in the fact that you are posting this on a public forum used to debate economics, investing, and trading? What is the difference between what they are doing and what you are doing? They are probably much smarter than most of the riff-raff that washes through ET (though ET does have a few, select, very intelligent members).
So I really don't see what your big deal with this is. You obviously don't have any other experience with these groups than the little bit you read in some business magazine. Why not actually attend one of the public meetings before you judge?
I'm with EMRGLOBAL...my bet is on the students.