Wake up Republicans, It Started in the Primaries

[GRULSTMRNN]

That is bollocks. I am a Republican (albeit non Trump voter) and I can assure you that I care about safe borders and a reasonable and fair immigration policy. I am an immigrant myself (from Europe), though currently residing in Asia. I consider myself highly skilled, educated and experienced. I can tell you from own experience that being able to immigrate to the US was an absolute nightmare in terms of quotas, documentation and screening process. I definitely felt that the past and current US immigration policy does not want highly skilled and experienced individuals but opens its floodgates to lowly educated or uneducated individuals. Why was my likes disadvantaged and we had to fight so many hurdles while undocumented immigrants, or outright illegal immigrants, or immigrants with criminal records received amnesty? I am in favor of kicking all undocumented workers out, including their children. They have no business residing in the US, from a legal and ethical standpoint. Am I lacking compassion? By no means. I volunteer and donate way more than the average person. I am all in for a system that fairly evaluates refugee applications. But reguee does not mean immigrant. A refugee is an individual who has proven that they would suffer serious physical harm in their own country and hence should be offered TEMPORARY refuge elsewhere. Immigration is permanent and should be based on merit. How it is possible that tens of thousands of unskilled Indians and others were granted immigration status simply because they have family ties in the US is a total mystery to me while highly skilled labor has almost zero chance to be granted immigration status.

Furthermore I am all in for universal Healthcare but it has to be financed. We can't hand out freebees to an ever increasing crowd of unemployed and lazy people. I am on the other hand against a number of republican talking points, mainly, military spending. We have reached ridiculous proportions and most of the money that should be invested in education and infrastructure is wasted on useless military spending. Do you see my point? It's shortsighted and naive to force every human being into either a Republican or Democrat pot. We should debate issues not someone's political leaning.

You think they care if Trump is a criminal? The only thing that matters to every Republican are IMMIGRANTS and that's it. Everything else is a talking point considering Trump has broken every single conservative rule there is and they still approve of him.

As long as Trump is openly racist, they will stick behind him no matter what.

 

[UsualName]

That is bollocks. I am a Republican (albeit non Trump voter) and I can assure you that I care about safe borders and a reasonable and fair immigration policy. I am an immigrant myself (from Europe), though currently residing in Asia. I consider myself highly skilled, educated and experienced. I can tell you from own experience that being able to immigrate to the US was an absolute nightmare in terms of quotas, documentation and screening process. I definitely felt that the past and current US immigration policy does not want highly skilled and experienced individuals but opens its floodgates to lowly educated or uneducated individuals. Why was my likes disadvantaged and we had to fight so many hurdles while undocumented immigrants, or outright illegal immigrants, or immigrants with criminal records received amnesty? I am in favor of kicking all undocumented workers out, including their children. They have no business residing in the US, from a legal and ethical standpoint. Am I lacking compassion? By no means. I volunteer and donate way more than the average person. I am all in for a system that fairly evaluates refugee applications. But reguee does not mean immigrant. A refugee is an individual who has proven that they would suffer serious physical harm in their own country and hence should be offered TEMPORARY refuge elsewhere. Immigration is permanent and should be based on merit. How it is possible that tens of thousands of unskilled Indians and others were granted immigration status simply because they have family ties in the US is a total mystery to me while highly skilled labor has almost zero chance to be granted immigration status.

Furthermore I am all in for universal Healthcare but it has to be financed. We can't hand out freebees to an ever increasing crowd of unemployed and lazy people. I am on the other hand against a number of republican talking points, mainly, military spending. We have reached ridiculous proportions and most of the money that should be invested in education and infrastructure is wasted on useless military spending. Do you see my point? It's shortsighted and naive to force every human being into either a Republican or Democrat pot. We should debate issues not someone's political leaning.

Why is it that people think highly educated immigrants is what is best for America?

It’s not.

Our system better serves us that immigrants work their way up through the generations into middle and upper class. Bringing in affluent and educated immigrants is actually bad for the American way of life and can have a negative impact on the established middle class that hold American degrees that are tailored to American based occupations.

Things like engineering, accounting, law have varying regulations and laws from one country to the next. Plus Americans are holding a high rate of college debt, bringing in more college educated people increases the workforce and has a negative impact on their ability pay off their debt, whereas foreign colleges are usually more affordable.

Less educated immigrants should make up the majority of immigrants to America. We should focus on educating and training American workers for good paying jobs and let immigrants work their way up through the generations.

The Statue of Liberty doesn’t read send me your educated and your affluent for a reason.

Republicans once again are completely ass backwards on an issue because they are more concerned with the color of someone skin than what is actually best for the country and American workers.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

Oh, so you are saying that as long as someone does not threaten your average education level and comes as a low skilled worker it is fine? I understand your self serving motives and don't judge your for that but you clearly have your own wellbeing in mind not the one of the overall society.

All your arguments Re how a skilled immigration workforce is bad for America are totally bogus and factually incorrect and nowwhere supported. Fact is that highly intelligent immigrants started companies and employed more people in high paying wages than all the wages of meatpackers and farm workers combined. Many of the top high tech firms that employ tens of thousands of employees are first generation immigrants. Those jobs actually pay Americans wages that afford them to buy quality goods pay mortgages and rent as well as tuition. Can you say the same of a meatpacker, farm worker or car manufacturing plant worker? The utility of the latter is incredibly low and it only causes higher welfare costs for the entire system while elasticity in higher paying jobs is incredibly high. In fact there is a huge worker shortage in computer science, the entire medical field, finance, and a number other high paying jobs. So all your arguments are defeated and made little to no sense from the start.

Competition for jobs has always been good for America. What is bad is competition for low skilled jobs which do not pay enough to get to the next level in life.

And I don't remember that the statue of liberty dictates American immigration policy or influences the interpretation of the constitution.

Is it perhaps you who is brainwashed and can't even consider arguments that are supported by facts that might fly against your established way of thinking?

Why is it that people think highly educated immigrants is what is best for America?

It’s not.

Our system better serves us that immigrants work their way up through the generations into middle and upper class. Bringing in affluent and educated immigrants is actually bad for the American way of life and can have a negative impact on the established middle class that hold American degrees that are tailored to American based occupations.

Things like engineering, accounting, law have varying regulations and laws from one country to the next. Plus Americans are holding a high rate of college debt, bringing in more college educated people increases the workforce and has a negative impact on their ability pay off their debt, whereas foreign colleges are usually more affordable.

Less educated immigrants should make up the majority of immigrants to America. We should focus on educating and training American workers for good paying jobs and let immigrants work their way up through the generations.

The Statue of Liberty doesn’t read send me your educated and your affluent for a reason.

Republicans once again are completely ass backwards on an issue because they are more concerned with the color of someone skin than what is actually best for the country and American workers.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[UsualName]

Oh, so you are saying that as long as someone does not threaten your average education level and comes as a low skilled worker it is fine? I understand your self serving motives and don't judge your for that but you clearly have your own wellbeing in mind not the one of the overall society.

All your arguments Re how a skilled immigration workforce is bad for America are totally bogus and factually incorrect and nowwhere supported. Fact is that highly intelligent immigrants started companies and employed more people in high paying wages than all the wages of meatpackers and farm workers combined. Many of the top high tech firms that employ tens of thousands of employees are first generation immigrants. Those jobs actually pay Americans wages that afford them to buy quality goods pay mortgages and rent as well as tuition. Can you say the same of a meatpacker, farm worker or car manufacturing plant worker? The utility of the latter is incredibly low and it only causes higher welfare costs for the entire system while elasticity in higher paying jobs is incredibly high. In fact there is a huge worker shortage in computer science, the entire medical field, finance, and a number other high paying jobs. So all your arguments are defeated and made little to no sense from the start.

Competition for jobs has always been good for America. What is bad is competition for low skilled jobs which do not pay enough to get to the next level in life.

And I don't remember that the statue of liberty dictates American immigration policy or influences the interpretation of the constitution.

Is it perhaps you who is brainwashed and can't even consider arguments that are supported by facts that might fly against your established way of thinking?

Thank you for declaring my arguments defeated and explaining my interest is self interest but you’re wrong on both accounts.

You are right in one area, we do not have enough educated AMERICANS to fill OUR high paying jobs and WE do need to improve the affordability of our college system to correct that.

What WE don’t need to do is import immigrants to fill jobs that would help AMERICANS move into the middle class.

Also, you are arguing in the extreme. I am not against immigration. I am for immigration. What I am not for is importing the affluent when our system is designed for immigrants to work their way into the middle class, not make it harder for AMERICANS to get out of poverty or have a decent paying job.

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

The US system was never designed to target low skilled labor regarding immigration policy. It was meatpackers, farms and the rich looking for their nannies and house maids that lobbied and bribed policy makers in opening the floodgates to low skilled labor from the outside. This is EXACTLY the problem for Americans in poverty, in that this cheap labor depresses wages at the low end. That is what keeps poor people poor. I am not even sure why we are debating this I thought this is simple logic and logical reasoning. Skilled workers from the outside do not threaten Americans in poverty.

When I speak of skilled labor I do not talk about some snotty Indians who come on H1B visa, i am talking about people like me who attended top universities (CMU in my case) and bring with themselves entrepreneurial spirit or years/decades of sought after work and management experience, something that is in very high demand and can't be filled by enough Americans because only very few reach that standard (just as in any other country). Without those people American stock prices would be a fraction of what they are, Amazon and Co would not even exist(perhaps you read up on the backgrounds of Bezos, Brin, and Co.) . Without those individuals there would be hundreds of thousands of workers not employed in high paying wages. Arguing that those specific immigrants are threatening the American middle class is preposterous. They are greatly benefitting the entire American society across every level of socio economic background.

If you feel threatened by those people perhaps you can improve your efforts at work, train to improve your skills, work harder, perhaps even longer hours, attain further education, and take the risk to start new companies or work in an employed fashion in a highly competitive job/industry. Of course only if you want to compete in that segment. Nobody forces you to do so. But arguing that you would be a Goldman MD if it was not for those invading foreign immigrant MDs is ridiculous.

Thank you for declaring my arguments defeated and explaining my interest is self interest but you’re wrong on both accounts.

You are right in one area, we do not have enough educated AMERICANS to fill OUR high paying jobs and WE do need to improve the affordability of our college system to correct that.

What WE don’t need to do is import immigrants to fill jobs that would help AMERICANS move into the middle class.

Also, you are arguing in the extreme. I am not against immigration. I am for immigration. What I am not for is importing the affluent when our system is designed for immigrants to work their way into the middle class, not make it harder for AMERICANS to get out of poverty or have a decent paying job.

 

[UsualName]

The US system was never designed to target low skilled labor regarding immigration policy. It was meatpackers, farms and the rich looking for their nannies and house maids that lobbied and bribed policy makers in opening the floodgates to low skilled labor from the outside. This is EXACTLY the problem for Americans in poverty, in that this cheap labor depresses wages at the low end. That is what keeps poor people poor. I am not even sure why we are debating this I thought this is simple logic and logical reasoning. Skilled workers from the outside do not threaten Americans in poverty.

When I speak of skilled labor I do not talk about some snotty Indians who come on H1B visa, i am talking about people like me who attended top universities (CMU in my case) and bring with themselves entrepreneurial spirit or years/decades of sought after work and management experience, something that is in very high demand and can't be filled by enough Americans because only very few reach that standard (just as in any other country). Without those people American stock prices would be a fraction of what they are, Amazon and Co would not even exist(perhaps you read up on the backgrounds of Bezos, Brin, and Co.) . Without those individuals there would be hundreds of thousands of workers not employed in high paying wages. Arguing that those specific immigrants are threatening the American middle class is preposterous. They are greatly benefitting the entire American society across every level of socio economic background.

If you feel threatened by those people perhaps you can improve your efforts at work, train to improve your skills, work harder, perhaps even longer hours, attain further education, and take the risk to start new companies or work in an employed fashion in a highly competitive job/industry. Of course only if you want to compete in that segment. Nobody forces you to do so. But arguing that you would be a Goldman MD if it was not for those invading foreign immigrant MDs is ridiculous.

You mistaken me completely. I do not view immigrants as invaders. Using that label in the context of what you perceive my views as is another fallacy on your part.

This country has long had an immigration system that welcomes all regardless of education, affluence, language proficiency. Transforming that system to bring in immigrants to fill well paying jobs that Americans can do with just reforming of education system is a disservice to established Americans who have been paying for and building the very opportunities you think people outside of this country should be entitled to.

No. There should certainly be some immigration help fill needed high skill and high paying positions but should not ignore the needs of Americans because there’s a global availability who can simply walk in and live affluent without paying any dues and leaving Americans in the dust.

This country is built on the immigrants that will work two jobs and is grateful for freedom and wants a better life for his children. Not the privileged elites of other countries looking to buy their way in.

 

[Cuddles]

The US system was never designed to target low skilled labor regarding immigration policy. It was meatpackers, farms and the rich looking for their nannies and house maids that lobbied and bribed policy makers in opening the floodgates to low skilled labor from the outside. This is EXACTLY the problem for Americans in poverty, in that this cheap labor depresses wages at the low end. That is what keeps poor people poor. I am not even sure why we are debating this I thought this is simple logic and logical reasoning. Skilled workers from the outside do not threaten Americans in poverty.

When I speak of skilled labor I do not talk about some snotty Indians who come on H1B visa, i am talking about people like me who attended top universities (CMU in my case) and bring with themselves entrepreneurial spirit or years/decades of sought after work and management experience, something that is in very high demand and can't be filled by enough Americans because only very few reach that standard (just as in any other country). Without those people American stock prices would be a fraction of what they are, Amazon and Co would not even exist(perhaps you read up on the backgrounds of Bezos, Brin, and Co.) . Without those individuals there would be hundreds of thousands of workers not employed in high paying wages. Arguing that those specific immigrants are threatening the American middle class is preposterous. They are greatly benefitting the entire American society across every level of socio economic background.

If you feel threatened by those people perhaps you can improve your efforts at work, train to improve your skills, work harder, perhaps even longer hours, attain further education, and take the risk to start new companies or work in an employed fashion in a highly competitive job/industry. Of course only if you want to compete in that segment. Nobody forces you to do so. But arguing that you would be a Goldman MD if it was not for those invading foreign immigrant MDs is ridiculous.

Bullshit, the US has always had immigration policy that targeted the low skilled, yes mid and high skilled jobs were part of it as well, but the immigration policy was always meant to be "fair for all" regardless of backgrounds and class. It's completely different than the Canadian model for instance.

As to your immigration hurdles, sorry to hear, but did you also have starvation knocking at your door or imminent death threats? Or could you afford to wait?

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

Risking you still don't get it I try one last time. Nobody comes being entitled. The skill set and education and experience is earned through hard work and effort. Furthermore, one only qualifies for immigration with a steady job anyway, which means that position was not filled by any American. Your wishful thinking of a reformed educational system is laudable and noted but it does not change the ststus quo: there are not enough qualified Americans to fill all the top technology jobs required to further grow American high tech corporations. Hate it as much as you like but this is a fact.

Every highly skilled immigrant pays the exact same dues than an equally skilled American and pays a lot more dues than any American that is less skilled : via high tax bracket taxation, payments into the social welfare system, benefitting American corporations which in turn expand and hire more and by purchasing American products and services. You keep on defending yourself saying my impression of you are misguided but at the same time you refer to my kind as leeches and ones "who just come and don't pay their dues". If anything I pay much more dues than any average American.

I get the impression that you have difficulties to differentiate. I am not talking about some wealthy who just come to the US to live the good life. I am talking about highly productive members of society who contribute on all ends at the very least as much as your average American.

You mistaken me completely. I do not view immigrants as invaders. Using that label in the context of what you perceive my views as is another fallacy on your part.

This country has long had an immigration system that welcomes all regardless of education, affluence, language proficiency. Transforming that system to bring in immigrants to fill well paying jobs that Americans can do with just reforming of education system is a disservice to established Americans who have been paying for and building the very opportunities you think people outside of this country should be entitled to.

No. There should certainly be some immigration help fill needed high skill and high paying positions but should not ignore the needs of Americans because there’s a global availability who can simply walk in and live affluent without paying any dues and leaving Americans in the dust.

This country is built on the immigrants that will work two jobs and is grateful for freedom and wants a better life for his children. Not the privileged elites of other countries looking to buy their way in.

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

And now you see where that lead:a cohort of millions who were sold false hope in the community College system that lead to nowhere. Tons of illegal immigrants (show me one immigrant who is illegal and possesses a high level of education and valuable and sought after work experience VS the thousands of low skilled illegal immigrants). Tons of low skilled immigrants who depress wages in low skilled labor effectively keeping low skilled Americans in poverty. A flawed immigration debate where we now start to argue to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants and their children (how do you like amnesty to someone who raped your daughter or stole from your shop? You are fine when the illegal act does not affect your life but scream when it does affect your life? What does that say about your moral compass? Then you have tons of lowly educated and skilled Indians and others who monopolize the entire h1b system to such andm extent that the h1b system is now being completely overhauled. This is what you get with low skilled immigration. Amazon, Google, Apple, I banks is what you get with high skilled immigration. Take your pick. I take and already took mine.

Re your last point, for that there are refugee programs. Granting refuge by dictionary definition is Temporary not permanent. I am all for assisting refugees as long as they understand that they will need to return to where they came from when the threat is eliminated even if that takes years. America can't take the entire world's refugee population. And refugees should be properly screened. They were not previously. Look at what happened to Germany and Europe when they opened the floodgates. You want that on your own doorsteps? Most Americans, including democrats, don't.

Bullshit, the US has always had immigration policy that targeted the low skilled, yes mid and high skilled jobs were part of it as well, but the immigration policy was always meant to be "fair for all" regardless of backgrounds and class. It's completely different than the Canadian model for instance.

As to your immigration hurdles, sorry to hear, but did you also have starvation knocking at your door or imminent death threats? Or could you afford to wait?

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Bringing in affluent and educated immigrants is actually bad for the American way of life and can have a negative impact on the established middle class that hold American degrees that are tailored to American based occupations.

This is actually a very sound point. Telling people to go into debt to get STEM degrees, then bringing in Indians to take their jobs is not good policy. We obviously need more medical and nursing schools and should be encouraging people to go into those fields, not making it nearly impossible.

The other side of your argument, that we should bring in lots of low skill workers, is less plausible. If we had a reliable way of seeing that they returned home after their seasonal jobs were over, that would be good but we obviously do not. The last thing we need is to bring in huge numbers of low skill workers who will remain here and go on welfare, join drug gangs, fill our prisons and overburden local schools, ie, our current policy.

The Lazarus poem on the Statue of Liberty is actually not part of the Constitution, as much as open borders advocates like to pretend otherwise. It is about as good a basis for modern immigration policy as the inscriptions on Confederate Civil War Memorials.