Wait, is this actually how people scalp?

[bone]

For you guys who scalp, are you placing the orders ahead of time? Since if you use a market order you get a terrible fill, it's better to stick your order out there true?

Whatever you choose to scalp (I wouldn’t personally recommend it but I’m biased and freely admit it) - you MUST have a very intimate knowledge of how orders are filled. In futures, for example, is your particular instrument FIFO or Pro-Rata algorithm? If it’s Pro-Rata, is there a FIFO component that gets filled first in the order queue ? If so, how many?

If you choose to scalp, how fast is your ECN? Are you routing orders first through an IB then an FCM and then to the exchange? Are you trading a product where professional trading firms collocate servers at the exchange? Are you trading a product where professional trading firms pay for order flow?

If I look at a firm like Jump Trading - they are literally paying hundreds of thousands of dollars per month on ECN infrastructure. And if YOU are legitimately “scalping” the market in the true sense of the word, you are competing against them and dozens of other well capitalized firms like them.

I wish you good fortune in your endeavors.

 

[1a2b3cppp]

This depends so much on the current situation right in front of me. Is the day just starting, or am I about to finish it for today ? Is it a very fast volatile market, or is it more of a slow day ? Am I ahead already, or do I already have an ugly loss in the book ?

Depending on these and other factors, I might usually want to get out of a trade once I see that the market is not really moving the way I want. Many times this will be already at -1 tick, or -2 or -3 ticks. Sometimes I might be expecting a breakout or snapback, but it does not come, so I scratch the trade or get out with 1 tick profit if possible.

Other times the market has maybe already fooled me multiple times, and I get pissed and stubborn. Then it can happen that I let it run much more against me, maybe 10 ticks, maybe even 20.

So 3 points profit and 20 points against you?

 

[1a2b3cppp]

1) I don't want to *encourage* anything here......Go watch the DOM of your favorite thing to trade....
2) Brackets brackets brackets. (If you wish to move 'em, that's fine, but at least they're in place as soon as your order is taken. In a 'golden' market, a good portion of your trades (regardless of direction of market or the trade) might be hit before your finger lifts off the [mouse-button] that sent it.)
3) In the ES, you're camped with the crowd, watching the trades-per-minute and mentally re-calculating-recalculating-recalculating when your contract will be hit. In equities, your Buy should be BID+ [one or two cents] and your Sell should be Ask- [one or two cents] to always put you in front.
4) Always know the cumBIDS and cumASKS -- that's where the market is going (for the next 30 seconds, anyway...)

Can we record that on a display? It changes so quickly how can you know where the market is going in the next 30 seconds when the side with the most volume might change numerous times in that allotment.

 

[destriero]

I hear you, I hear you ... I know they're good for you, but honestly, I think that after the first week, I'd probably tire of eating nuts for lunch every day ...

If I may be so bold... do you share an IP address with an alias formerly known as “NoDoji?”

 

[Xela]

If I may be so bold... do you share an IP address with an alias formerly known as “NoDoji?”

I don't.

I believe (though you'd have to ask the admin, for certainty on this point) that I don't even share a continent with her, let alone an IP number.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

I don't.

I believe (though you'd have to ask the admin, for certainty on this point) that I don't even share a continent with her, let alone an IP number.

You seem to have mellowed since the time I asked the same question, even though I made my observation half-jokingly.

 

[jinxu]

If I may be so bold... do you share an IP address with an alias formerly known as “NoDoji?”

Was that a pickup line?

 

[Xela]

You seem to have mellowed since the time I asked the same question, even though I made my observation half-jokingly.

Apparently I managed to be tactful today - I'm sorry I didn't when you said whatever you said. I really do get fed up of being accused of being someone I'm not (though Destriero didn't "accuse" at all: he simply asked), and it happens all too regularly ... not always No Doji, but sometimes. I'm also quite often accused of being Al Brooks or one of his daughters, and/or one of the directors of "TopStepTrading". Needless to say I have absolutely no connection at all with either/any. (No Doji is American, isn't she? It's flattering to me, I suppose, in one sense, considering that English isn't even my first language.)

 

[CALLumbus]

So 3 points profit and 20 points against you?

Ticks, not points, but yes, it is possible that I take 1 tick profits and then a bit later I have to get out with a 20 tick loss. Not what happens every day, but it happens.

The opposite is also true and happens: I might take a scalp near a breakout point, without the intention to actually trade the breakout. But then it suddenly it happens, market breaks out, I buy/ sell some additional contracts and before you can say "holy cow" you are up maybe even 40 ticks. Again, this does not happen every day, but it happens once in a while.

The market is not a machine, and neither are you. You can not calculate everything in advance, you have to ride the wave the way it forms itself right now, in this moment. Sometimes you pick up small profits, sometimes you get hit by the heavy loss train, sometimes you really kill it by staying in a strong move for a few extra seconds... whatever happens and whatever you do, at the end of the day the goal is to make some money, as consistently as possible. For this, you adapt, every day, and do what has to be done. This can only be achieved (in my oppinion) from lots of experience. Take a look how prop firms teach their traders: open up a DOM or two, and follow the market action day in and day out. No charts, no indicators. Just pure movement of price, right now, in this second. Do this every day, for 1 year, a few hours each day. I guarantee everybody who tries this massive improvement.

Ask John Grady. Ask Peter Davies. Or if you dont really trust these guys... check out what Tom Baldwin said about trading (in the CBOT pits back in the 80s):
“It's perseverance” declares Tom Baldwin who started with $25,000 and made untold millions trading upwards of $2 billion dollars a day in T-Bond futures.
"It's perseverance. You don't need any education at all to do it … because it is like any job. If you stand there long enough, you have to pick it up."

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Apparently I managed to be tactful today - I'm sorry I didn't when you said whatever you said. I really do get fed up of being accused of being someone I'm not (though Destriero didn't "accuse" at all: he simply asked)

That's okay. And I also only asked. My question was whether anyone had ever seen you and NoDoji in the same room at the same time.

(No Doji is American, isn't she? It's flattering to me, I suppose, in one sense, considering that English isn't even my first language.)

Your English is as good as anyone's here, and better than most. I don't always agree with what you say, especially about Brooks and Topstep, but you say it well.