Wait, is this actually how people scalp?

TY! I did not know that. I have been using it exclusively to form my bias (direction)...and it has been working in Demo. So that is why is moves independently from the numbers...lol...not what I thought...embarrassed :p
But in my defense I knew it matched the highs and the lows where the resistence is.

ES

CALLumbus said:
The VAP is something different. It has nothing to do with the resting limit orders. The VAP shows the volume that has already been traded during that session on each price level. I dont pay too much attention to it, but it can help you to identify areas of high activity, resistance and so on... but if so sit in front of the DOM all day long, you will notice these things without the help of a tool like the VAP. Just like a chart, the VAP tends to give traders a biased view, which I dont like.
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Call,

The moment you get filled on the bid, place a limit sell order 1 tick higher.

You said the above earlier...I use a bracket order to accomplish this. Is that ok? Stupid question I know...but I am assuming too much. I am discovering I must cover every detail now.

ES
 
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ok got it

CALLumbus said:
And when you say orders, of course there are orders over more than 1 contract. But the PIQ and the bid/ask size will always show you the number of contracts, no matter in how many orders they are packed to. Even if there is only 1 limit buy order at a price level with a size of 3000 contracts, the bid will still show 3000, and if you place a limit buy order at the same level the PIQ will also show 3000.
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ElectricSavant said:
Call,

The moment you get filled on the bid, place a limit sell order 1 tick higher.

You said the above earlier...I use a bracket order to accomplish this. Is that ok? Stupid question I know...but I am assuming too much I am discovering. I must cover every detail now.

ES
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Like with everything, there are 2 sides of the medal. A bracket order will immediately place the offset order for you, so in a very fast market this can be an advantage. It is possible that after you get filled on the bid, in 1 second, before you could manually place the offset order the market trades through the ask, then back to the bid, through the bid and 1 tick lower. With a bracket order, in this case you would have collected 1 tick. Without the bracket, you have lost 1 tick.

But there are of course also other situations. You get filled on the bid. Right after that the buyers really step in and start to get crazy, buying the market 5 ticks up within seconds. In that case, with your bracket order you collect again 1 tick. Without the bracket order, you would have had the opportunity to take at least a few ticks from the sudden spike upwards.

So it is difficult to give a general suggestion for this. It depends alot on the market that you are trading, it also depends on who you are and what kind of trading you prefer. Do you like it more to collect your steady 1 tick, without those spectacular bigger winners once in a while ? Or do you prefer to risk a sure 1 tick gain here and there to give a trade the chance to run a bit more and bring more profit ?
Regarding the markets, I would say that in a market like FESX or ZN the 1 tick offset makes more sense than in a very fast, jumpy market like FDAX or NQ. In these fast markets you have so many times fast 10-20 tick moves out of nowhere, so that it definitely makes sense to give at least some trades room for the extra runner once in a while.
 
Call,

That makes sense, what you write. I have a long way to go before forming any opinions or establishing my favorite markets and style. But I can see that placing the order manually will net more over a number of trades if in the right (tempestuous) market.

Thank You for your wisdom. I can tell that you are wise in trading. I am an anonymous person on the internet and so are you...but I feel I know you. silly huh?..I drive many people crazy as I am very detail oriented...almost at a sick level (ADHD, OCD, bipolar...etc)..Traders seem to be able to tolerate me more than others. I tried to be a moderator here some years ago and I did not do well. I have been posting on ET for 15 ½ years. I was once a CTA (had to take the series 6 test three times before I could pass it) but I discovered. I did not like to trade other peoples money. Somehow I ended up in the wasteland called Forex...for the life of me I do not know why I am there. I feel so much better about a real centralized market such as Futures.

ES

CALLumbus said:
Like with everything, there are 2 sides of the medal. A bracket order will immediately place the offset order for you, so in a very fast market this can be an advantage. It is possible that after you get filled on the bid, in 1 second, before you could manually place the offset order the market trades through the ask, then back to the bid, through the bid and 1 tick lower. With a bracket order, in this case you would have collected 1 tick. Without the bracket, you have lost 1 tick.

But there are of course also other situations. You get filled on the bid. Right after that the buyers really step in and start to get crazy, buying the market 5 ticks up within seconds. In that case, with your bracket order you collect again 1 tick. Without the bracket order, you would have had the opportunity to take at least a few ticks from the sudden spike upwards.

So it is difficult to give a general suggestion for this. It depends alot on the market that you are trading, it also depends on who you are and what kind of trading you prefer. Do you like it more to collect your steady 1 tick, without those spectacular bigger winners once in a while ? Or do you prefer to risk a sure 1 tick gain here and there to give a trade the chance to run a bit more and bring more profit ?
Regarding the markets, I would say that in a market like FESX or ZN the 1 tick offset makes more sense than in a very fast, jumpy market like FDAX or NQ. In these fast markets you have so many times fast 10-20 tick moves out of nowhere, so that it definitely makes sense to give at least some trades room for the extra runner once in a while.
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ElectricSavant said:
Call,

That makes sense. I have a long way to go before forming any opinion or establishing my favorite markets.

Thank You for your wisdom. I can tell that you are wise in trading. I am an anonymous person and so are you...but I feel I know you. silly huh?..

ES
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LOL ! I dont think it is possible you know me haha :D

Yes, you have to try yourself to see what works for you, what market feels good for you. But there is so much to choose from, it is great !

Maybe one additional hint... if you are just starting and you want to go the scalping way, you have to know that without low cost structure (total cost per RT) it is almost mission impossible.
If you are just starting and you dont trade high volume (lets say less than 5000 contracts per month), it will be tough to negotiate low commissions with your broker. And it probably does not make sense to lease an exchange seat yet.

The solution to this might be the Eurex. They have the lowest exchange fees around, and even with a standard retail broker, you can get your all-in RT cost down to something like 1.00 EUR for contracts like FESX or FGBL (which are great for scalping), or something around 1.50 EUR for the FDAX (also good for scalping). With such a cost structure, you are very close to what prop trading firms are offering their traders in London, and you will have one thing less to worry about.
If you pay something like 4 EUR or USD per RT... better forget about scalping. You will not be net profitable.
 
Call,

Yes sounds like good advice about those commissions, which what you say makes mathematical sense. I will probably ask a friend of mine at TT to get me an extension of my Demo account. I am using AMP trading and they offered me $4.50/RT for the ES. I guess TT is just as good for scalping as others.The trouble is that these demos fill the order too easy...

ES

CALLumbus said:
LOL ! I dont think it is possible you know me haha :D

Yes, you have to try yourself to see what works for you, what market feels good for you. But there is so much to choose from, it is great !

Maybe one additional hint... if you are just starting and you want to go the scalping way, you have to know that without low cost structure (total cost per RT) it is almost mission impossible.
If you are just starting and you dont trade high volume (lets say less than 5000 contracts per month), it will be tough to negotiate low commissions with your broker. And it probably does not make sense to lease an exchange seat yet.

The solution to this might be the Eurex. They have the lowest exchange fees around, and even with a standard retail broker, you can get your all-in RT cost down to something like 1.00 EUR for contracts like FESX or FGBL (which are great for scalping), or something around 1.50 EUR for the FDAX (also good for scalping). With such a cost structure, you are very close to what prop trading firms are offering their traders in London, and you will have one thing less to worry about.
If you pay something like 4 EUR or USD per RT... better forget about scalping. You will not be net profitable.
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ElectricSavant said:
Call,

Yes sounds like good advice about those commissions, which what you say makes mathematical sense. I will probably ask a friend of mine at TT to get me an extension of my Demo account. I am using AMP trading and they offered me $4.50/RT for the ES. I guess TT is just as good for scalping as others.The trouble is that these demos fill the order too easy...

ES
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4.50 with AMP, ok but you can get lower, even with them. They are very transparent with their fee structure:
https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

If you go with AMP, you might also select the CQG feed and Sierra Chart as your platform, an excellent combination. With this combo, AMP will charge you only 3.60 USD per ES or NQ roundturn, if you have at least 10,000 USD in your account.
If you are willing to invest 2000 US$ into a 2K membership with them, you will get such a nice discount that you will trade at the following all-in rates per RT:
ES: 2.90 USD
NQ: 2.90 USD
FESX: 1.24 EUR
FGBL: 0.98 EUR

As you can see, the Eurex products you can trade for very low cost with AMP, this is already prop firm level and perfect for scalping. The only other retail broker I know that can offer you such low all-in rates even if you trade little volume is Tradovate (who is an introducing broker for Dorman and Phillip Capital).
 
ElectricSavant said:
Call,

Yes sounds like good advice about those commissions, which what you say makes mathematical sense. I will probably ask a friend of mine at TT to get me an extension of my Demo account. I am using AMP trading and they offered me $4.50/RT for the ES. I guess TT is just as good for scalping as others.The trouble is that these demos fill the order too easy...

ES
More...

Hello @ElectricSavant. MD Trader from TT was made for scalping and you will not find a better tool. As for demo fills, they should be very realistic. We've done extensive work over the years to make our simulation matching engine as authentic as possible. If you wish to discuss this in detail please send me a Private Message and we'll go through the details.
Thank you-
Patrick
 
Eurex is sounding more and more interesting. How much is a tick worth?

ES

CALLumbus said:
4.50 with AMP, ok but you can get lower, even with them. They are very transparent with their fee structure:
https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

If you go with AMP, you might also select the CQG feed and Sierra Chart as your platform, an excellent combination. With this combo, AMP will charge you only 3.60 USD per ES or NQ roundturn, if you have at least 10,000 USD in your account.
If you are willing to invest 2000 US$ into a 2K membership with them, you will get such a nice discount that you will trade at the following all-in rates per RT:
ES: 2.90 USD
NQ: 2.90 USD
FESX: 1.24 EUR
FGBL: 0.98 EUR

As you can see, the Eurex products you can trade for very low cost with AMP, this is already prop firm level and perfect for scalping. The only other retail broker I know that can offer you such low all-in rates even if you trade little volume is Tradovate (who is an introducing broker for Dorman and Phillip Capital).
More...
 
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