Wage gap is a myth

[El OchoCinco]

If women make less across the board, then why wouldn't corporate America simply hire all women since they're paid less? They could save themselves a whole lot of labor cost.

Taken from the heathcare study for nurses.

"Traditionally, men have gravitated toward acute care, high-paid specialties and to management/administration, which are all higher paying," he said.

Isn't that verifying the choice conclusion that the Harvard study came to?

That was good Captain.....people often misquote an article to support their point and conveniently leave out the things that clearly contradict their point. Then others jump in who are too lazy to read the article and add more misinformation and then it just grows and grows. I am trying to have an honest discussion about this not from a political standpoint but how a misinformed opinion is easily proven as flawed and one does not need a Harvard degree to do so.

You left out the next sentence in your quote:

"Based on this survey, it seems clear men are being paid significantly more than women in the profession doing comparable work. "

 

[CaptainObvious]

That was good Captain.....people often misquote an article to support their point and conveniently leave out the things that clearly contradict their point. Then others jump in who are too lazy to read the article and add more misinformation and then it just grows and grows. I am trying to have an honest discussion about this not from a political standpoint but how a misinformed opinion is easily proven as flawed and one does not need a Harvard degree to do so.

You left out the next sentence in your quote:

"Based on this survey, it seems clear men are being paid significantly more than women in the profession doing comparable work. "

Because that sentence makes absolutely no sense, especially where it's placed in the article. How do you conclude that ""Traditionally, men have gravitated toward acute care, high-paid specialties and to management/administration, which are all higher paying," he said, and then write Based on this survey, "it seems clear men are being paid significantly more than women in the profession doing comparable work"?
Yes, their study shows men making more than women and it's because of the choices they make. I didn't misquote anything. You are refusing to accept the conclusions of the article that you posted.
Again, from a strictly economic point of view, employers would never pay more than they have to for equally qualified people if they didn't have to. People make choices, choices have consequences. Isn't any more complicated that that. It is the left that chooses to politicize those choices.

Edit: And then define "comparable work". A job can have the same exact job title and have very different responsibilities and skill sets which will then effect the pay. Common sense.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Because that sentence makes absolutely no sense, especially where it's placed in the article. How do you conclude that ""Traditionally, men have gravitated toward acute care, high-paid specialties and to management/administration, which are all higher paying," he said, and then write Based on this survey, "it seems clear men are being paid significantly more than women in the profession doing comparable work"?
Yes, their study shows men making more than women and it's because of the choices they make. I didn't misquote anything. You are refusing to accept the conclusions of the article that you posted.
Again, from a strictly economic point of view, employers would never pay more than they have to for equally qualified people if they didn't have to. People make choices, choices have consequences. Isn't any more complicated that that. It is the left that chooses to politicize those choices.

It is very easy to understand. the general statement is that traditionally men gravitated towards being doctors or in high level administrative position in hositals and women tended to mainly go into nursing. So if you looked across the medical fields the wage disparity was explained by the first general statement you said, the choice of the individual or the opportunity afforded each sex.

BUT the article then clearly states the HOWEVER based on the survey which takes into account men and women doing the SAME job, thus removing the choice element and equalizing the study field, women make less on average.

Do you have a dog in this fight that you cannot just read the research and accept it but feel your manhood is being personally threatened. You always want to fall back on left v. right. It seems the politics clouds your mind so much you cannot have a general conversation.

This is not left v. right and why are you opposed to women getting the same salary as men for the same work? The article clearly states that it is not the case in nursing from their research. I hope you are never in the hospital but if you do, the nurse will do more to save your life or improve your health than the doctor.

The economic argument is bullshit because economics is a theoretical field not beased on reality. Employers are not paying MEN more, they are paying women less. Not hard to grasp. Men are making the level that they have to from a business standpoint but on average the women are being paid less.

 

[El OchoCinco]

The Physician Compensation Report released by Doximity in March found that in 2017, the gender pay gap between male and female doctors actually increased. Female doctors earned 27.7 percent less, or $105,000 less, than their male counterparts. The disparity in 2016 was 26.5 percent, when female doctors earned $91,284 less. There was no medical specialty in which women earned more than men.

This is not a political bias, this is just the results of a research report.

 

[gwb-trading]

It is very easy to understand. the general statement is that traditionally men gravitated towards being doctors or in high level administrative position in hositals and women tended to mainly go into nursing. So if you looked across the medical fields the wage disparity was explained by the first general statement you said, the choice of the individual or the opportunity afforded each sex.

BUT the article then clearly states the HOWEVER based on the survey which takes into account men and women doing the SAME job, thus removing the choice element and equalizing the study field, women make less on average.

Do you have a dog in this fight that you cannot just read the research and accept it but feel your manhood is being personally threatened. The economic argument is bullshit because economics is a theoretical field not beased on reality. Employers are not paying MEN more, they are paying women less. Not hard to grasp. Men are making the level that they have to from a business standpoint but on average the women are being paid less.

The research in the article analyzes the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA). This is a unionized environment where hourly earnings are strictly based on position and number of years. An individuals total compensation is based on their personal selections regarding over-time, total hours worked, and weekend/holiday work. The study very clearly concludes that there is no overt "gender pay gap" - the difference in total compensation is strictly based on the different selections made by men & women based on what they value.

 

[El OchoCinco]

There is no overt gender pay gap in the MBTA, that is all the study concludes. What is the study's research in other areas?

I listed two other studies that showed in those specific careers there is a gender pay gap. So I disproved your generalization with very little ease. That means the statement is false because a generalized opinion is being extrapolated from sector specific data. This is statistics 101 but I think it is still above the level of many posting here.

If you make a generalized statement that is easily proven false, then the statement has no foundation in fact.

 

[gwb-trading]

The research in the article analyzes the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA). This is a unionized environment where hourly earnings are strictly based on position and number of years. An individuals total compensation is based on their personal selections regarding over-time, total hours worked, and weekend/holiday work. The study very clearly concludes that there is no overt "gender pay gap" - the difference in total compensation is strictly based on the different selections made by men & women based on what they value.

Let's take a look at the text of the article:

Bolotnyy and Emanuel wrote that the evidence they discovered “so far on the earnings gap in our setting suggests that insufficient flexibility and high female values of time outside the workplace are its root causes.”



John Phelan, an economist at the Center of the American Experiment, provided an excellent analysis of the study. The gender wage gap came to light due to a dumb methodology that ignores basic observations (emphasis mine):

It ignores the fact that according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), in 2017, men worked an average of 8.05 hours in an average day compared to 7.24 hours for women.

True, women are more likely to be raising children, taking care of elderly family members, or doing housework, leaving them with fewer hours in the day for paid employment. But this does not alter the essential fact: that people working fewer hours, on average, can be expected to earn lower incomes, on average.

Let me repeat: When you work fewer hours, you will make less than what others make who work more hours.

This led Phelan to conclude that this “‘gender wage gap’ is as real as unicorns and has been killed more times than Michael Myers.”

 

[CaptainObvious]

Same job title and same job are not the same thing, whether it's nursing, welders, machinists, sales reps, customer service reps, or anything else. Size of the company makes a difference in pay, as does the shift, responsibilities, skill required, etc., etc. People also make choices based on location, work atmosphere, other off the record perks which may exist, etc., etc.
Bottom line, there is no wage discrimination... well that's not quite true. There is one place where it does exist. Hollywood. Oh the irony. A bastion of leftist ideology where women are screwed literally and figuratively. And it's no strange coincidence that's where this wage gap battle cry started and is still ongoing. Hollywood is all about political activism. The most unfair and dangerous places are where leftist ideology has been implemented, whether it's Hollywood, or a gun free zone, you're more likely to get screwed there. Again, if you're unhappy, thank a leftist. It's their idiotic polices that make life miserable. Just ask Kevin Hart, any of Weinstiens victims, or any number of Chicago victims of gang violence in the "safe" sanctuary city.

 

[newwurldmn]

The research in the article analyzes the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA). This is a unionized environment where hourly earnings are strictly based on position and number of years. An individuals total compensation is based on their personal selections regarding over-time, total hours worked, and weekend/holiday work. The study very clearly concludes that there is no overt "gender pay gap" - the difference in total compensation is strictly based on the different selections made by men & women based on what they value.

The article actually states that when the actual pay is equal (by union mandate), women make different choices that lowers their compensation.

The paper acknowledges other studies that show women make less for other reasons and specifically says that they wanted to normalize for this by studying the MBTA. The paper further studied the effects of policy changes st the MBTA on the effect of those women’s (and men’s) choices.

So what should the net conclusion be for smart person like you? That women’s choices affect their compensation but it doesn’t speak to the fact that women can be explicitly paid less than men for the same work.

It’s intellectually dishonest to take the data from the paper and conclude the pay gap is a myth. Any statistics 101 student would see the population and the sample aren’t remotely similar.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The article actually states that when the actual pay is equal (by union mandate), women make different choices that lowers their compensation.

The paper acknowledges other studies that show women make less for other reasons and specifically says that they wanted to normalize for this by studying the MBTA. The paper further studied the effects of policy changes st the MBTA on the effect of those women’s (and men’s) choices.

So what should the net conclusion be for smart person like you? That women’s choices affect their compensation but it doesn’t speak to the fact that women can be explicitly paid less than men for the same work.

It’s intellectually dishonest to take the data from the paper and conclude the pay gap is a myth. Any statistics 101 student would see the population and the sample aren’t remotely similar.

Anyone can be paid less for the same exact position, especially in salaried management type positions. I have seen that many times. It's called negotiating skills and the willingness to walk if you don't get what you want.