VXX a good buy at current levels?

Quote from trefoil:

So, as of right now (this is actually based on the S&P Vix Futures Index, which is calculated by doing this continuous roll) they are selling August and buying September, which they'll be doing until the 21st, at which point they start selling Sept and buying Oct.
Given the current term structure, it would be insane to put any money into this. Look instead at XIV: this has a long-term positive record, and is a much more sane investment at the moment. As long as the term structure is in contango and steeply sloped, it should do well. Look at http://www.cboe.com/micro/vxv/, the three month volatility index. If you download the spreadsheet there, you'll see that this closed at 18.55, 30% higher than the VIX. I figure, off the top of my head, that XIV will probably do well as long as VXV is at least 15% higher than the VIX. After that, better to sell it, most likely. I haven't backtested this at all, but given the historical data available here and if you got your hands on XIV's historical data, you could probably do a pretty good job of figuring out a decent strategy with these ETFs.
Bottom line, it's better to take the other side of the trade with these guys who suffer from the roll. When it goes into backwardation, you can do this UVXY or VXX, both of which would benefit.

You don't understand XIV.

XIV is designed to inverse track VXX *** INTRA-DAY ***...
That means from 9:30 to 16:00.

XIV does not track anything over the long term...
Because you have to rebalance DAILY to VXX....
And you are paying huge rebalancing costs...
Which is similar to paying 10%/month in VXX roll yield.

Both VXX and XIV are designed to go to zero...
The former due to roll yield... the latter due to rebalancing cost.

Going long either is sub-optimal... unless it's intra-day.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/306517-why-i-m-shorting-vxx-rather-than-buying-xiv
 
Quote from DeeDeeTwo:

You don't understand XIV.

XIV is designed to inverse track VXX *** INTRA-DAY ***...
That means from 9:30 to 16:00.

XIV does not track anything over the long term...
Because you have to rebalance DAILY to VXX....
And you are paying huge rebalancing costs...
Which is similar to paying 10%/month in VXX roll yield.

Both VXX and XIV are designed to go to zero...
The former due to roll yield... the latter due to rebalancing cost.

Going long either is sub-optimal... unless it's intra-day.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/306517-why-i-m-shorting-vxx-rather-than-buying-xiv

Simple test of this: do a comparison of the returns on a graph. Rather revealing. XIV is a better-designed fund than VXX, which is a horrible design. VXX has had to do at least one reverse split as I recall, whereas XIV has a normal split in its price history, another very revealing fact.
As I wrote, XIV has a positive long-term graph, and the reason is in its profile: its supposed to replicate the opposite of the SP VIX Futures Index. That would do an excellent job of exploiting contango. Contango is the shape the curve has the majority of the time.

For the VIX, you have to sit and think about this logically. Volatility is really just a measure of uncertainty in options prices, the same way that interest rates are a measure of uncertainty in the bond world. Thus, in bonds, the farther out in time you go, the more you get paid in interest for holding a bond, normally. In options, the farther out in time you go, the higher the IV in the price of the option, normally.
Sometimes this inverts, but this isn't normal, either in options or bonds.
In VIX futures, the effect is magnified, because normally the futures are higher than the volatility of the expiration of SPX options that underlie the futures contract. As of right now, the August futures contract of the VIX, which has the Sept SPX expiration as its underlying, is a few percentage points higher than the volatility of that expiration, with only a few days left on the contract.
So, in normal times when the curve is in contango, as you get closer to expiration, volatility is gradually declining, and on top of that the futures contract is converging to that declining volatility. (although I wouldn't try anything with that August contract, since so close to expiration the probabilities aren't really in your favor anymore. As with any set of multiple probabilities, it's better to have more tosses of the coin to allow things to be in your favor. And you really really don't want to mess with the SOQ that settles the contract.)
If you compare VXV, three month volatility, to VIX, over the history that they share, you'll see that on average VXV is 7% higher than the VIX. The median, even more revealingly, is 8%. This shows you that contango is the shape of the curve the majority of the time. If backwardation were normal the median would be negative, and if it were 50/50 it would be very close to zero.
Therefore over the long term, if you're set up to exploit contango, which is how XIV is designed, you'll do better than if you're set up to exploit backwardation, which is what VXX is set up to do. But in the times when the curve is in backwardation, VXX will do better, obviously.
 
Quote from trefoil:

So, as of right now (this is actually based on the S&P Vix Futures Index, which is calculated by doing this continuous roll) they are selling August and buying September, which they'll be doing until the 21st, at which point they start selling Sept and buying Oct.
Given the current term structure, it would be insane to put any money into this. Look instead at XIV: this has a long-term positive record, and is a much more sane investment at the moment. As long as the term structure is in contango and steeply sloped, it should do well. Look at http://www.cboe.com/micro/vxv/, the three month volatility index. If you download the spreadsheet there, you'll see that this closed at 18.55, 30% higher than the VIX. I figure, off the top of my head, that XIV will probably do well as long as VXV is at least 15% higher than the VIX. After that, better to sell it, most likely. I haven't backtested this at all, but given the historical data available here and if you got your hands on XIV's historical data, you could probably do a pretty good job of figuring out a decent strategy with these ETFs.
Bottom line, it's better to take the other side of the trade with these guys who suffer from the roll. When it goes into backwardation, you can do this UVXY or VXX, both of which would benefit.

Your crazy xiv is a short from here.
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Your crazy xiv is a short from here.

thx for a yahoo finance chat response. it is screaming, personal and says nothing.
 
Quote from Realistic:

VXX like many many other similarly constructed ETF's "GLD, SLV, UNG, USO, is extremely inefficient [i.e flawed]

Compare the various ETF's performance to their respective futures contracts: UNG/NG, USO/CL, SLV/SI, VXX/VIXX, etc...

The Contango effect is too great for anything other than short term trading, and even then I prefer the short side.

Regardless how low it may go, it never increases value proportionately, so you are at a disadvantage from the beginning...

gld, slv are not future based. they track the physicals very well. everything in life is flawed if u look hard enough but you deal with it.
 
Quote from zdreg:

thx for a yahoo finance chat response. it is screaming, personal and says nothing.
Other than using "your" instead of "you're" I'm spot on.
Henceforth you never need to respond to any of my posts now do you thanks in advance "dreg".
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Other than using "your" instead of "you're" I'm spot on.
Henceforth you never need to respond to any of my posts now do you thanks in advance "dreg".

personalizing shows what you are made of.

you are a poster child for yahoo finance chat board posters, who scream ,PHOENIX TRADING, and offer their opinion without facts to backup their opinion.
 
Back
Top