Volume

[Paddler]

Quote from murray t turtle:

============
Great question ,Paddler.

When big bank home forclosures+ home forclosures flood the market;
who is in comtrol????????????????????????????????

Hint ..its probably not the big banks;
they keep lowering the price//keep lowering the price///keep lowering the price until the buyers + cash buyers take a shot,,LOL

Seems almost but not quite.

Think a little deeper on the process of how the minority gradually transforms as a majority and vice versa. One day, you may be able to trade with DOM and T&S alone without using a chart nor confronting any risk.

 

[traitor786]

Quote from jack hershey:

Sure.

Dr. Hu is my cancer surgeon. So I keep her very happy. Since she is interested in neuroscience that is where you will find the essentials of my rebuttal to spurt on how perception comes from inference and sensory input.

A bit off topic Jack, but i remember some progress was made in cancer research, I think in Canada not too long ago. If you havent heard of it I could look it up for you.

 

[iamdom]

Quote from Paddler:

Seems almost but not quite.

Think a little deeper on the process of how the minority gradually transforms as a majority and vice versa. One day, you may be able to trade with DOM and T&S alone without using a chart nor confronting any risk.

Don't listen to this folks, keep on learning SCT ( suckers continuously trying).
This man Paddler is a fool and Jack is a genius and I am not saying this for selfish reasons

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from frenchfry:

Here another OMG!!!

If I wouldn't manually/mentally look for gaps intrabar, then I would not see the same thing that Jack is talking about. Does TN do it in realtime?

Platform vendors do not do inovation oreven have resource traders who are such as a rule.

Platform vendors mostly have support ordinary traders are looking for.

Historically the first degapping that occurred was "roll over degapping" and it was for non scientific reasons. People wanted to do MA's amd EMA's over periods longer than a roll over period.

while I am an amateur by NFA standards, I have become recognized for mathematical work and this creates "libraries" associated with my efforts.

I have a pinwheel library for MLR's and I have a stock library.

In libraries of trading systems, the ATS portion is known under the class of mathematics as "strategies". Most platforms have many strategies that use conventional trading names.

Recently I asked surf what his platform was so I could rent it to load in some mathematics he could use as a strategy to become a successful trader.

No strategy will work at optimum until degapping is part of the platform. I was able to make this point with the powers that be for my platform. It is a programming priority an now it is undertood why.

On displays, price case highlighting is best done mathematically on degapped information flow.

My chart illustrations are neither degapped day to day nor bar to bar. BUT they are degapped with respect to rollover.

you can see how slow the WSJ and IBD are in reasoning providing information. The coolest example is the 200 day volume moving average. we may have landed on the moon before the powers that be in financial reporting caught up enough to post MA's of volume.

If you want to do a humorous test, do this.

buy a copy of "How to Lie With Statistics" and buy a spiral note book. Divide it into the chapters of HTLWS. read the book.

Now do clippings from bublications you read. Clip each lie and put it in (paste) the spiral binder. As you soon see you are in a "Gee Whiz" world of journalism.

Now go through all the books you have on finance and trading. Tear all the lies out of the books. Start with Covell and David Goodboy. Do Tharp.

So what is a gap. Most movement is in a two pair (BBid/BAsk pair) dance. A common value is shared. If a timeframe bar ends and another begins, the gap is a possible. Think about significance.

 

[traitor786]

Quote from Paddler:

Seems almost but not quite.

Think a little deeper on the process of how the minority gradually transforms as a majority and vice versa. One day, you may be able to trade with DOM and T&S alone without using a chart nor confronting any risk.

Big buyer comes in and has to buy alot of stock (100%) and drops it in possibly by market order (if it is limit he does so near current price.)

He is buying from few small guys each has a place in at every step of the limit ladder, lets say 10% of what buyer wants is at each step
buy buys 10 and pushes price up. then 10 more and 10 more at even a higher price.

buyer pushes price up 9 steps.

at each step he had unfilled fifo orders?
and now he is up 9 steps he still has 10% more to sell. but price is beyond his acceptable amount. so now he has orders waiting that no one is buying , orders slow down drasticlaly. What is left is retail orders trading on majorities side that are willing to higher then big buyer. but they are few and met with other side.

price becomes chopy tight and slow. flat and dojish.

price comes down a bit and buyer may buy more to try to move his last 10% or he may leave it for another time?

lets say buyers 10% are met by the retailers, or off the plate.
once it is gone all lower levels of the laddeer shoudl be empty in theory (not sure about unfilled oreders) as for above alot has been eaten up fast and there should be a lineare amount of orders at each level up. possibly even a big seller.

choppy trading slows and in comes uncertinty, price is not flying like it was. Some retails may panik and get out when they see a possible reversal. They signed up for a rocket and got flat. some revers
either way nothing is under price goes down, 1 min chart looks weak and 1 min players sell. this causes 5 min to look bearinsh and they join in the sell side. hourly traders soon see weekness and sell.

This is acceleration. (not a fact)

now intresting thing is that 1 min players play with little , (assuming) 5 min playter play with a bit more , hours players play with even more money.

fialure is first on 1 min then on 5 thnen 1 hrs
each time frame has more money involved. so as people join, we are not having linear growth in volume but rather increasing slope or exponential.

added to this is that we ate up lower ladders on on the way up ?

people who reverse, take away from one side and add to the other whit is X2 volume

This is not a fact, i am guessing, I guartee there is a few things wrong

we need to add in fifo lines/unfilled order ect.
we need to understand the idea of shorting.

The right place to be is to be in with majority before they get in and get out before they get out. this is imposible. bige buyer dumped in his orders system is flooded, you can only hope to get in


So instead you begin to sell to him once you feel he is almost done buying based on his # of unfilled order. or based on speed, or when he is done and masive volume becomes small selective nervous slow retail oreder volume. .

Sorry about the clarity

 

[traitor786]

miss post sorry,

I am wondering if some one has this already readily available to them.

Chart of a product where shorting is or was not allowed as regulation changed. compared to the same chart before regulation change.

I am not sure of this would exist its beyond me. I chart of limit orders only or market orders only.

Only if any one has already compared. Either way, one of these days I'll find time to look at it ,

thought it would nice to see how these things effect the charts. and maybe where the most volume is and if there is a point where volume of one dies at the other takes over. I guess this may just be level 2 vs what is printed out.

Just bouncing ideas around

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from traitor786:

Big buyer comes in and has to buy alot of stock (100%) and drops it in possibly by market order (if it is limit he does so near current price.)

He is buying from few small guys each has a place in at every step of the limit ladder, lets say 10% of what buyer wants is at each step
buy buys 10 and pushes price up. then 10 more and 10 more at even a higher price.

buyer pushes price up 9 steps.

at each step he had unfilled fifo orders?
and now he is up 9 steps he still has 10% more to sell. but price is beyond his acceptable amount. so now he has orders waiting that no one is buying , orders slow down drasticlaly. What is left is retail orders trading on majorities side that are willing to higher then big buyer. but they are few and met with other side.

price becomes chopy tight and slow. flat and dojish.

price comes down a bit and buyer may buy more to try to move his last 10% or he may leave it for another time?

lets say buyers 10% are met by the retailers, or off the plate.
once it is gone all lower levels of the laddeer shoudl be empty in theory (not sure about unfilled oreders) as for above alot has been eaten up fast and there should be a lineare amount of orders at each level up. possibly even a big seller.

choppy trading slows and in comes uncertinty, price is not flying like it was. Some retails may panik and get out when they see a possible reversal. They signed up for a rocket and got flat. some revers
either way nothing is under price goes down, 1 min chart looks weak and 1 min players sell. this causes 5 min to look bearinsh and they join in the sell side. hourly traders soon see weekness and sell.

This is acceleration. (not a fact)

now intresting thing is that 1 min players play with little , (assuming) 5 min playter play with a bit more , hours players play with even more money.

fialure is first on 1 min then on 5 thnen 1 hrs
each time frame has more money involved. so as people join, we are not having linear growth in volume but rather increasing slope or exponential.

added to this is that we ate up lower ladders on on the way up ?

people who reverse, take away from one side and add to the other whit is X2 volume

This is not a fact, i am guessing, I guartee there is a few things wrong

we need to add in fifo lines/unfilled order ect.
we need to understand the idea of shorting.

The right place to be is to be in with majority before they get in and get out before they get out. this is imposible. bige buyer dumped in his orders system is flooded, you can only hope to get in


So instead you begin to sell to him once you feel he is almost done buying based on his # of unfilled order. or based on speed, or when he is done and masive volume becomes small selective nervous slow retail oreder volume. .

Sorry about the clarity

you are incorrect.

 

[kjones5159]

Quote from jack hershey:

you are incorrect.

You want to be minority and buy/sell into the rotation from minority to majority?

 

[traitor786]

Quote from jack hershey:

you are incorrect.

You hit the nail on the head as always jack! It'll pass, no worries

meanwhile, let me know if I should try to delete or fix mythe other rambling*

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from kjones5159:

You want to be minority and buy/sell into the rotation from minority to majority?

Watching the DOM, T&S and OTR has a purpose for traders.

Systems monitoring and analysis leads to seeing the two ends of trends.

As an trend end approaches, the trader prepares to carve profits from his current hold during the full movement of the trade.

This setting is when the trader begins to view the DOM, T&S and OTR.

The DOM contains pending orders. The important characteristic seen is an end of price movement of the trend. As clear as a bell, a "log jam" is showing.

A trader has three "mind operators" at work O-1, O-2 and O-3; respectively, they represent "space", "shape", and "movement"

Two sums on DOM show. Each is the sun of five values. One is larger than the other. On the largest sum's side is a "log jam" value. I call this the wall.

Market orders feed into the market and face orders showing on both sides of the DOM. These are BBid/BAsk values where unseen market orders shrink the values on both sides.

More frequent types of market activities than trading are also going on. Sometimes I ask other ET members to list these types of more frequent and powerful activities according to their rank in activity.

So the BBid and BAsk values are more greatly influenced by these activities than are market orders on both sides of the DOM.

the wall formed by large market participants ignoring other participants with orders at their order value and side.

When too many orders pile up in one place, not all of them can be executed by the time, nearest value orders on the opposite side of the DOM can be executed.

So, the BBid/BAsk DOM operating point moves AWAY from the remainder of the unfilled orders on the wall.

As in seen a new value of unexecuted orders fills in "in front of" the wall. these orders are supplemented as well.

Meanwell the contest to shrink orders by market orders on both sides continues.

Flights of stairs form on OTR charts going away from extremes where DOM walls had formed.

The trader places market orders at extremes of his trend monitoring and analysis using the above knowledge and skills of TA.


What do large traders do mostly? what they do mostly and with disregard for others is set "targets" and delete "targets". Stops do not show on the DOM. When a stop value is hit the order becomes, permanently, a market order. No market orders show on Dom, T&S or OTR until they are transacted again an order on DOM. Orders on DOM are exectuted in a FIFO order.

Trader strategies are only as good as the line in which the trader places his trades.

I trade from the fast lane because I can read the information flow of the markets. Price is a lagging indicator of price. Knowing an End Effect of a trend comes from volume. At that time the DOM, T&S and OTR are used to carve turns at optimum profit.

This post shows how the minority controls price movement.