Virginia police officers sued after altercation with Army 2nd lieutenant

userque said:
Doesn't matter. You cited Supreme Court cases, without having studied appellate law. :)

Source regarding Temporary Plates?

Source?

Source? [EDIT: With regard to an unlawful stop]

The discussion is not about a lawful stop, that hasn't concluded. It's about an unlawful stop; or a lawful stop that should have been concluded.

Source, as it relates to my above reply?

You don't have to follow an unlawful order.

Exaggerated Example To Illustrate The Point
If a Vegas cop seriously ordered you to do the chicken dance while you were being detained on the strip, for a burned out taillight; would that be a lawful order? Would you follow it?

In that same scenario, would it be lawful for the cop to order your beautiful wife to come sit in the front seat of his squad car with him, as you dance the night away?

Oh, so now you get to choose which unlawful orders you "must" follow? Or do you simply just comply?

Sandra Bland
If you don't an unlawful order, you may end up like Sandra Bland. She refused to follow an unlawful order.

Her family settled for almost 2 million, reportedly. Probably would have been more today.

I've questioned/instructed an officer three times in my life, on orders I knew were unlawful. All three times, they backed down.

The Point
My point is, and was, that citizens are not required to follow unlawful orders. Why citizens are walking around believing something so silly is beyond me.

Now That That's Hopefully Clear
Disclaimer: Obviously, it is usually better to obey, and initiate legal action later. You have to decide for yourself, based on the circumstances.
More...
I cited Supreme Court cases, because they show that police have the right to order someone to exit the vehicle during a traffic stop. I cited Virginia law, because that's what determines whether or not this was a lawful traffic stop. Here's a link to the specific Virginia law requiring license plate illumination. I don't think anyone would argue that he was in compliance with this law with his plate mounted behind a tinted window.

https://vacode.org/46.2-1013/
Such tail lights shall be constructed and so mounted in their relation to the rear license plate as to illuminate the license plate with a white light so that the same may be read from a distance of 50 feet to the rear of such vehicle. Alternatively, a separate white light shall be so mounted as to illuminate the rear license plate from a distance of 50 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

I would encourage everyone to study the laws in their state so that they understand what their rights are and aren't during a traffic stop. It's true that you don't have to follow unlawful orders, but that doesn't help you if you don't understand the laws.
 
LS1Z28 said:
I cited Supreme Court cases, because they show that police have the right to order someone to exit the vehicle during a traffic stop. I cited Virginia law, because that's what determines whether or not this was a lawful traffic stop. Here's a link to the specific Virginia law requiring license plate illumination. I don't think anyone would argue that he was in compliance with this law with his plate mounted behind a tinted window.

https://vacode.org/46.2-1013/
Such tail lights shall be constructed and so mounted in their relation to the rear license plate as to illuminate the license plate with a white light so that the same may be read from a distance of 50 feet to the rear of such vehicle. Alternatively, a separate white light shall be so mounted as to illuminate the rear license plate from a distance of 50 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

I would encourage everyone to study the laws in their state so that they understand what their rights are and aren't during a traffic stop. It's true that you don't have to follow unlawful orders, but that doesn't help you if you don't understand the laws.
More...
That law is for tail lights. It refers to a license plate.

A temporary registration placard is not a license plate.

I encourage everyone to understand that a license plate is not a temporary registration.

upload_2021-4-13_10-47-47.png

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/commercial/#dealer/pod_intro.asp

"...to place in the vehicle."

Anything further?
 
LS1Z28 said:
I cited Supreme Court cases, because they show that police have the right to order someone to exit the vehicle during a traffic stop. I cited Virginia law, because that's what determines whether or not this was a lawful traffic stop. Here's a link to the specific Virginia law requiring license plate illumination. I don't think anyone would argue that he was in compliance with this law with his plate mounted behind a tinted window.

https://vacode.org/46.2-1013/
Such tail lights shall be constructed and so mounted in their relation to the rear license plate as to illuminate the license plate with a white light so that the same may be read from a distance of 50 feet to the rear of such vehicle. Alternatively, a separate white light shall be so mounted as to illuminate the rear license plate from a distance of 50 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

I would encourage everyone to study the laws in their state so that they understand what their rights are and aren't during a traffic stop. It's true that you don't have to follow unlawful orders, but that doesn't help you if you don't understand the laws.
More...


Your analysis is too simplistic. Cops can ask you to step out of your car for probable cause which is held up to scrutiny. However cops surrounding a car with guns pointed without probable cause they need to do so creates a really scary situation for the person who at best had a temporary sticker on his car??

Nazario again asks, "What's going on? What did I do?"
"You received an order. Obey it," Gutierrez says. Nazario then replied he was afraid to and Gutierrez told him he should be.
Gutierrez then tells the lieutenant he was pulled over for a "traffic violation" and is being "detained" for "obstruction of justice" because he was not cooperating.
The bodycam footage shows Nazario with his hands up and outside the window as the officers try to open his door. Gutierrez's report said that when Crocker attempted to unlock the driver door and open it, Nazario hit his hand away. The lawsuit said this narrative is false based on the body camera video and despite knowing it was not true, Gutierrez included it in the report.

Cops policies as well as some laws don't give them full rights to surround a car with guns drawn and create a dangerous situation without any probable cause. full body cam footage shows no threat or danger and the driver RIGHTFULLY asking waht was going on and why does he have police surrounding him with guns.

Also, a Black man has the right to freeze with his hands outside the window in front of cops with their guns drawn because cops have proven they are incompetent where if the guy breathes heavy they will shoot him and claim they feared for their life. What is Nazario supposed to do with cops pointing guns at him and asking him to move his hands to open the door? A white guy was allowed to exit the car with his fully loaded gun and shot a cop, this guy has his hands outside the door for safety and you think he is allowed to move a muscle?

FUCK THAT.

There is a reason the cops got fired because their approach was agaisnt policy and also THEY created the dangerous situation.
 
When I was a young white guy I got attitude checked multiple times by male cops. It's not always about race...sometimes but not always. I was a surfer in decent shape so some hated me too.

They tried to provoke me. Once they said the nastiest things to my girlfriend to try and get me to do something. It was the most demeaning thing I ever personally witnessed. If you like freedom and not getting clubbed in the face...you have to comply. It sucks... but it is why half the cops are cops.

Oddly woman cops loved me because I showed them respect.
 
userque said:
That law is for tail lights. It refers to a license plate.

A temporary registration placard is not a license plate.

I encourage everyone to understand that a license plate is not a temporary registration.

View attachment 256800
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/commercial/#dealer/pod_intro.asp

"...to place in the vehicle."

Anything further?
More...
From your link:
Temporary tags print directly from a laser printer on white 8.5 x 11 synthetic paper, which is provided by DMV at no charge. The weather-resistant product does not require a plastic sleeve and is affixed directly to the vehicle using four screws.

Vehicle and dealership information is printed directly on PoD temporary tags. A temporary registration card also prints on the same sheet and is given to the owner or operator to place in the vehicle. DMV stores the vehicle information and temporary tag expiration date in its records, and law enforcement can access it through the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN).

The first paragraph refers to temporary tags, AKA temporary license plates. They have 4 holes so that they can be mounted directly to the bumper and comply with all license plate laws. The 2nd paragraph refers to temporary registration cards which are to be kept inside the car. They aren't the same thing.

virginia12.jpg
 
userque said:
You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
More...
It is not that dangerous. The ratio of police killing other people to other people killing police ~170:1 . It seems the police have tipped this ratio in there favor by killing preemptively, just in case someone they stop might have a gun. Shoot first, ask questions later seems to be their operative motto.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top