Violent Crime in Cities Shows Sharp Surge

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Why "filter" by economics? Why not by gender? Why is it any different assuming males pose a greater risk toward violence than arguing those with darker skin commit more crime?

My best guess Z? If one compared crime stats between middle class black and white neighborhoods the same discrepancies would occur. If money was an arbiter then athletes and rap stars would be shun criminal behavior. IMO it's more about culture than economics.

Liberals have long argued stats are skewed because whites are less likely to be convicted. I'd agree to some degree that's true although I doubt the average white armed robber is defended by F. Lee Bailey.

What's becoming truer recently is that black criminals are not being arrested as frequently as white criminals. Many cities are seeing the rate of cleared murders at all time lows. The white guy who kills his wife is arrested within days. The black guy who shoots a rival gang member is usually not identified or hence apprehended. Some criminologists believe black murderers are being under represented by as much as a third or half.

If economic discrepancies are to blame then why black on black crime? Or black crime in nations where NOBODY has any money? Do you think black criminals are bemoaning CEO compensation when they kill each other?

P.S. Define educational "opportunity." Is there a magic learning pill distributed to white kids? Surely you're hip to the immense spending per pupil in America's urban schools. Since funding isn't the issue could it be the teachers? Or is it racist to argue that perhaps whites have been historically better educators?

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I did not make your point at all. We can take any area of the country, and we will find crime by whites.

Your use of the term "virturally" crime free is what I object to...

Prison populations nation wide are not "virtually" all black and hispanic.

I don't argue that the percentage of crime by black are higher, but rather than apply racist conclusions that I find are so common here at ET, I am applying just scientific observation.

If we were to filter the crime results by economic status, say take only those who have incomes in the six digit realm or higher (no, not drug dealers...but law abiding businessmen) then analyze white to black, or white to hispanic, etc. the conclusion that I believe a rational non racial person would make is that poor blacks and hispanics are convicted of more crimes.

So, why is it that more poor blacks and poor hispanics are engaged in more crime per capita than whites?

This then becomes a sociological issue, not really one of race per say.

Then the solutions becomes a sociological solution, not a racial issue per say.

It is not that I don't think we have a problem, and no, I don't think that necessarily pouring money on the problem is going to fix the problem, and yes black and Hispanic community has to take the major responsibility.

But let's consider this. Imagine if we suddenly legalized drugs, legalized prostitution and made both affordable to the low income districts.

How would that impact crime statistics on the basis of race?

See, the issue really isn't not about race, it is about the condition and culture, the family history, etc. of the particular situations, and the socioeconomic conditions.

The growing disparity in income in this country, the lack of education and opportunity is what ultimately leads to crime...not race.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Do you really think kids in schools in Rancho Sante Fe California get the same education that a kid in the projects in L.A. gets?

So you blame rap and hoops for crime?

The bottom line, I really believe, is that you are ultimately making arguments from a racist bigoted platform. You are arguing from conclusion, and selecting data and ignoring data to make your point.

This is much different than really trying to find solutions to the problem that impacts all of us.

I just don't view it as racial. There is no genetic research that can explain why some members of race do what they do, and other members do what they do.

If in fact some races are born with certain traits on the basis of genetics, then our efforts as a society should be focused on how to help those people overcome them if they are liabilities.

For instance, we need to find ways to help white men jump higher.

We need to find ways to get white men to dance and not look stiff and retarded.

We need to find ways for white men to enjoy hockey as much as NASCAR.

Maybe surgery to get white me to have bigger Johnsons...

Generations of thinking also impact any particular culture, and it is not so easy to change a particular thinking, because try as one might, it is very difficult to grow up and away from the early childhood experiences and training, beliefs, biases, etc.

The choice is to be racist in the sense that the thought process is that race determines destiny, or that we all have strengths and weakness due to our heritages (both biological and cultural), which the educational systems and society should focus on help us to be better people and have richer (not just financially) lives.

You see the glass half empty, I see it half full in this case, and the real problem is that many of those in power do not want to share the water they have.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Why "filter" by economics? Why not by gender? Why is it any different assuming males pose a greater risk toward violence than arguing those with darker skin commit more crime?

My best guess Z? If one compared crime stats between middle class black and white neighborhoods the same discrepancies would occur. If money was an arbiter then athletes and rap stars would be shun criminal behavior. IMO it's more about culture than economics.

Liberals have long argued stats are skewed because whites are less likely to be convicted. I'd agree to some degree that's true although I doubt the average white armed robber is defended by F. Lee Bailey.

What's becoming truer recently is that black criminals are not being arrested as frequently as white criminals. Many cities are seeing the rate of cleared murders at all time lows. The white guy who kills his wife is arrested within days. The black guy who shoots a rival gang member is usually not identified or hence apprehended. Some criminologists believe black murderers are being under represented by as much as a third or half.

If economic discrepancies are to blame then why black on black crime? Or black crime in nations where NOBODY has any money? Do you think black criminals are bemoaning CEO compensation when they kill each other?

P.S. Define educational "opportunity." Is there a magic learning pill distributed to white kids? Surely you're hip to the immense spending per pupil in America's urban schools. Since funding isn't the issue could it be the teachers? Or is it racist to argue that perhaps whites have been historically better educators?

 

[ElCubano]

we cant only blame education. It takes a stupid mo-fo with diregard for any morals to give a 2 and 4 yr old a philly blunt while mom is ZZZZzzzzz in the next room....and then have mom not even so much as care that it happened; try that in a Cubans house and mom will beat you senseless brother or not and then have you arrested. Thats not even the stupid part....them idiots filmed it...like Don King says "ONLY IN AMERICA"

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

I wouldn't compare RSF to South Central but by the same token there's schools in the Valley spending the SAME amount per kid, with the same curriculum and achieving dramatically better results.

Don't misconstrue traits for genetics. I don't believe people are "born" a certain way. I do believe black culture conditions members to not stigmatize activities as would other cultures.

Asians and other immigrants used to severely punish wayward youngsters for bringing shame and suspicion onto their community. People who instead play the blame game seek to transfer responsibility. We see traders blame the mythical "they" all the time. An exercise in futility not to mention the antithesis of self discovery. Me thinks Eastern and Greek philosophy should be taught to grade schoolers. Just like the Catholics do.......

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Do you really think kids in schools in Rancho Sante Fe California get the same education that a kid in the projects in L.A. gets?

So you blame rap and hoops for crime?

The bottom line, I really believe, is that you are ultimately making arguments from a racist bigoted platform. You are arguing from conclusion, and selecting data and ignoring data to make your point.

This is much different than really trying to find solutions to the problem that impacts all of us.

I just don't view it as racial. There is no genetic research that can explain why some members of race do what they do, and other members do what they do.

If in fact some races are born with certain traits on the basis of genetics, then our efforts as a society should be focused on how to help those people overcome them.

For instance, we need to find ways to help white men jump higher.

We need to find ways to get white men to dance and not look stiff and retarded.

Maybe surgery to get white me to have bigger Johnsons...

The choice is to be racist in the sense that a thought process is that race determines destiny, or that we all have strengths and weakness due to our heritage, which the educational systems and society should focus on help us with to be better people and have richer (not just financially) lives.

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

. IMO it's more about culture than economics.

bingo....

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I agree, we can't blame only education. It is a societal problem, and society begins at home in the family structure.

I am disturbed at the recent actions of Ron Artest and also Sprewell with their attacks on women, and that the likely response of some people who think that kind of behavior is "normal" both in the black community who may say "the bitch deserved it" and in the white community where they think all black athletes are criminals.

It is a bad deal all around. To me, education is not just what happens in the classroom, but outside of it, at home, the peer group, and other influences...including proper nutrition and a general sense of safety and well being as children.

Ultimately, it begins and ends with the families, but why some white kids with great families turn out bad, and some black kids with horrible families turn out good just point to something going on which is not racial.

Quote from ElCubano:

we cant only blame education. It takes a stupid mo-fo with diregard for any morals to give a 2 and 4 yr old a philly blunt while mom is ZZZZzzzzz in the next room....and then have mom not even so much as care that it happened; try that in a Cubans house and mom will beat you senseless brother or not and then have you arrested. Thats not even the stupid part....them idiots filmed it...like Don King says "ONLY IN AMERICA"

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from ElCubano:

bingo....

Look at you guys here in Miami.

You fled on rafts (still do) into a country where you couldn't speak the language. How many Cuban's in Dade? A million perhaps? One can go weeks without reading about a Cuban kid killing someone yet Dade's relatively small Black populace is up to daily evil.

I can't overstate Cohiba the immense respect and love I have for your people. Rather that hurt Miami you and your countrymen have built it into the dynamo it is. You should be very proud.

BTW: Marco Rubio for President! The guy's a stud!

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Ultimately, it begins and ends with the families, but why some white kids with great families turn out bad, and some black kids with horrible families turn out good just point to something going on which is not racial.

we are thinking in general as a group, not isolating any indivdual scenerios. As a group for whatever reason there is no denying what pabst has already pointed out; there is no way you can argue the numbers.....it can be a combo of racism, education, poverty or culture; but as a group many people have fallen victim to them there circumstances and have found a way to get above and beyond....

Marco Rubio is a stub for shizzzzzi.....peace

 

[tradermaji]

I think there is something in our society that promotes violence. It glamorizes violence and that is what we are seeing on the streets today.

Have you ever attended an ice hockey game where music starts to play and people starts hollering when two players break into a fight? That is pathetic. I read today that hockey player has been suspended for a face slash, and I hope that bastard is banned from playing hockey for the rest of his life. We should discourage violence, especially in sports where they tend to have more influence on the young.

On that note, I have heard inner city kids boasting to each other about whose dad is in jail for the worse crime!!!!! It is something to be proud of? Darn, that is how glamorous crime and violence has become on our streets.

 

[sputdr]

I bet that if a study was done comparing teeneage pregnancy rates with the rise in popularity of rap music there would be a direct correlation.

The black community is leaderless and fatherless, kids look somewhere for a role model and unfortunately they get them from BET and MTV.