Quote from jem:
You are distorting science again. I have explained this to you. Hawking makes his quote about gravity in the context of top down cosmology... an extremely speculative idea.
Far more speculative than the idea that an extremely tuned universe would have a Tuner.
As a good faith non troll effort.... why don't you explain how gravity could:
1. create a universe
2. create an extremely fine tuned universe without almost infinite tries.
this time trying quoting science or show us papers supporting science.
If you are going to engage in speculation about inflation... please explain whether the theory upon which you rely is proven or hightly speculative... part of a thought experiment thought up by Guth and relying on unproven quantum gravity. Then go back and review his video earlier in this thread.
Basically your argument about gravity does not explain the fine tuning of our universe.
In good faith?You? pfft.
You're the one deciding for yourself what is and isn't speculative based on whether it has the word god in it or not. Good faith my ass.
Create a universe?
Particles coming into existence from nothing is proven. Being no need for god to magically make things appear, is proven already.
Create a fine tuned universe?
In your universe, the one where Elvis lives, things may be fine-tuned. The real universe has a particular though approximate value not yet accounted for, which by lacking proper explanation, is sometimes speculated to be finely tuned. There is no science however that shows it is finely tuned.
The only one constantly attempting to distort science by stating the universe is finely tuned, is yourself.
You are also trying to assert that incomplete scientific hypotheses drawn from and explained through math, general relativity, quantum mechanics and the laws of physics, is exactly the same as the irrational speculation of a make-believe and imaginary 'Tuner' god in the sky, which has no explanation at all.
You purposefully choose an uninformed and patheticaly infantile position to start from.
Science is ever the only means by which speculation is taken towards proven.
Science is explanations explained.
Religion is explanations unexplained, which is no explanation at all.
There is nothing more highly speculative than god. Trying to crowbar it into everything wherever information is incomplete is merely one way the religiously desperate like yourself are always trying and failing to justify their nonsense .
