Victor Niederhoffer--- Rare Silver Auction Catalog

Quote from Rearden Metal:

I doubt he'd even <i>try</i> to rationalize that. My guess is that he does it for the thrill/excitement/adrenalin rush.
More...
Let's not leave out the possibility that he was gaming the system and stuck his own fingers into the furnace a bit too far. Once burned, twice Niederhoffer...

He may indeed be a great guy but for his arrogance and megalomania. As for his returning investors, well, that must be a groupie thing, since he was gaming the system at their expense. Perhaps it's also an S&M thing. Just how discerning could these people be, to pay Niederhoffer to essentially go to a casino roulette table with their money and put it all on red? There's intelligent trading and then there's flat out gambling in the wild hope of creating dynastic wealth tomorrow.
 
Quote from taowave:



IMHO,great trading does not consist of selling the 95% spot put with two weeks left and leveraging 5+ to 1 in massive size.If trading is a game of good offense with great defense,Vic has effectively benched his defense in HOPE that his offense will carry the team.Simply put,Vic enters position that one cant defend.

For whatever reason,you place Vic on a trading pedestal,while he should be used as the classic example of a trader who refuses to check his ego and bow down to the god of "size".
More...



interesting points, although we are personal friends, i am not well versed on his exact methods either and will not comment on what i do know. VN surrounds himself with the best talent in the business, as evidenced by the success of those from his stable. I believe you are oversimplfying what occured.

i do know that a convergence of factors occured forcing the latest scenerio and it was more than simple over leverage. multiple exchange margin changes, while he had positions on, may have been one factor......

he is paid to take risk and shoot for huge returns. with a growing AUM, he simply can't bow down to the god of size while maintaining top rankings-- as the investors demand.

regards,

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

im just speculating here, but isn't high risk a needed component of high returns?
More...

Not necesserily. Let's do the math, shall we?

Let's suppose Victor position trades futures, just like you. Since return is gains multiplied by leverage, you either need big gains or big leverage to achieve big returns.

So let's say you want 50% returns, which is giant for a HF. Trading your Gann strategy if you can make 1000 YM points per year (which is a pretty easy task), you need to leverage 6 to 1 app.
If that leverage is too high for your investors, you just need to hire talent who can do 2000 YMs per year and even a 3 to 1 leverage makes you 50%...

That simple....
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

VN surrounds himself with the best talent in the business, as evidenced by the success of those from his stable.
More...

That's why I don't get:

1. How the hell does he blow up with all that talent employed?

2. Why does he "trade" at all personally? If he can meet talent with investors' money he should just do the matchmaking, sit back and enjoy the show.... (like those famous people's parfumes or clotheslines for example. Brittney didn't invent any new scent, for God's sake.)
 
I killed this argument about 20 years ago, but let's repeat it again:

Quote from marketsurfer:

furthermore, he has extracted far more more from the markets than lost-- why this fact is swept under the rug, i have no clue.
More...

Let's consider the case of the famous WW2 bomberpilot, called Market Bomber. He has bombed many enemy cities in his carrier, but in the process he accidentally bombed 2 FRIENDLY cities. So he killed 100 K enemies and about 10K friends.

We could say that in his carrier he killed WAY more enemies than friends, nevertheless we wouldn't call him a TOP GUN pilot.

...or would we??? :confused:

P.S.: Not to mention any evidence for the claims would be very welcomed...
 
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahaa!

Da realz question boyz iz, "why is surfeee selling all hiz prized posessions, did he like his homie blow out too??"

Surfeeee is dat table for salez tooo, would look good in the crib.


:D :D :D :D :D
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

VN is human and makes mistakes. it's the vitriol and schradenfeude flung his way on every misstep that needs to be countered. the guy pushes the limits, that's what he is PAID to do--institutions and very high net worth people CHOOSE to invest with him, after doing due dilegence-- there is no ignorance here---they are aware of the risks. given the nature of the markets, one can't win everytime--doesn't take away from his talent, skill and ability. furthermore, he has extracted far more more from the markets than lost-- why this fact is swept under the rug, i have no clue.

regards,

surf
More...

Surf,are you sure he has made more ABSOLUTE $ than he has lost? Or did he increase his size as his assets grew,only to lose all?

I am in agreement that on a percentage return basis,he is still up.

Surf,no one is really aware of the risks Vic takes,first and foremost Vic himself.If HE was truly aware,he would not be placing those bets.

As for "pushing the limits",thats just a glorified way of saying the guy has no risk management skills.Admire his work ethic,admire his competitive nature,but open your eyes and see the guy sells way more premium than is prudent on any risk adjusted basis.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top