Victor Niederhoffer--- Rare Silver Auction Catalog

Quote from marketsurfer:

totally agree with you above. however, from what i understand, once again, i don't know ---- that SC has tremendous informational advantage.....

however, i disagree with the second part of your post, VN had many years of AWESOME returns--- did he screw up several times, does he push things too far? yeah--possibly--i dont know enough to say for sure-- many many years of stellar returns punctuated by 2 blowouts----that's speculating in the purest form......you win, you lose-- you get back up, take risk, and you try again.....
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Surf,I will only say that SAC is the best at what they do.I cant say much more than that,but the proof is in the pudding,and they are heavily scrutinised.Steve is no Vic in terms of charisma,squash and music,but he is a trader with few if any equals...

Surf,since the highs in Oct 2000,we have had 7 corrections of 8% or more.Vic has blown out in 2 of them.I would venture after his first blowout,he was on the sidelines for a while and missed several of those corrections.Best case scenario Vic blows out 2/7 times in sharp corrections.It could be as high as 2/4.You like those odds?
 
Quote from taowave:

Surf,I will only say that SAC is the best at what they do.I cant say much more than that,but the proof is in the pudding,and they are heavily scrutinised.Steve is no Vic in terms of charisma,squash and music,but he is a trader with few if any equals...
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SAC has my deepest respect. he is one of a kind and a master of the game--plus i like his taste in art--(mostly!).


regards,

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

VN had many years of AWESOME returns--- did he screw up several times, does he push things too far? yeah--possibly--i dont know enough to say for sure-- many many years of stellar returns punctuated by 2 blowouts
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This is what we know.

Fact of the matter is he did amass quite a fortune ... it's just that volatility nulliefies his edge and blows his system.

If he were able to adquately compensate for its effects, managed his risk differently, or traded more than one system we still wouldn't be having this conversation.

When I amass a fortune ... (relative) ... I'll be willing to critique him (and it will go along the lines of the importance of keeping what you have), until then I can only look at what he did and take inspiration from it.

He was/is a driven, ultra-competitive overachiever by any stretch (who I still do not believe has ended his tenue in the investment world), to some degree, what made him great is also what what spelled his ruin.

It's very easy to call the obviously correct path in hindsight ... I do it all the time.

I
 
A few things I need to set straight here:

1) A few pages back in this thread, Acronym made some pretty harsh comments on <b>artwork he's apparently never even seen</b>- Not even pictures of it.

2) Icarus5: <i>"He did not factor the human element into his equations. His models were based on a rather "pure" world of mathematical certainty. It was rare for price action to fall outside of its parameters, and even when it did, it would eventually just rebound with even more ferocity in the direction that he had originally anticipted it would go."</i>

Do you think Vic's sophisticated mathematical models didn't pick up on the fact that multiple 10%+ corrections occur every single decade, throughout the entire history of the stock market, without exception? Had he respected the quantitative models, he'd still be whole this year. No Black Swans were seen in 2007.

3) Pabst: <i>"Vic was a FUCKING PUT SELLER!!!!! You act as if this guy was a trader/speculator/quant/value investor/matinee idol. He only sold puts. A CHIMP could manage a fund like Vic does. No analysis based on musical waves, no "Wiz" at the risk controls, nothing about quiet or no shoes-just SELLING PUTS. Real high brow stuff."</i>

Pabst, with all due respect, I have personally sat shoeless in Vic's trading room, witnessing first hand as VN took multiple trades that were NOT put sales.
 
Quote from Icarus5:

This is what we know.

Fact of the matter is he did amass quite a fortune ... it's just that volatility nulliefies his edge and blows his system.

If he were able to adquately compensate for its effects, managed his risk differently, or traded more than one system we still wouldn't be having this conversation.

When I amass a fortune ... (relative) ... I'll be willing to critique him (and it will go along the lines of the importance of keeping what you have), until then I can only look at what he did and take inspiration from it.

He was/is a driven, ultra-competitive overachiever by any stretch (who I still do not believe has ended his tenue in the investment world), to some degree, what made him great is also what what spelled his ruin.

It's very easy to call the obviously correct path in hindsight ... I do it all the time.
I
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Very well said.I only critique Vic as I have had the good fortune of working with some of the most talented traders on Wall street.I will also be the first to say I certainly do not fall into that league as I lacked the "greed" factor that the great ones have,and my motivations were much more fear based.

I can not for the life of me understand how Vic could have placed himself in such a precarious position.I am in no way playing hindsight analyst,I am speaking as a derivative trader who has had his fill of getting smoked being short gamma.

IMHO,Vic needs to make trading a business.That means having several business that are not highly correlated.It would mean he would have to give up control,and as I dont know him,that may not be in his DNA..

The best specs such as Tudor and SAC all have an Alternative Asset Trading groups.There simply is not enough "opportunity" with LIQUIDITY to deploy that type of capital otherwise.Vic certainly has a loyal following and it is probably for a very good reason.Hopefully,he will have another opportunity to succeed..
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

A few things I need to set straight here:

1) A few pages back in this thread, Acronym made some pretty harsh comments on <b>artwork he's apparently never even seen</b>- Not even pictures of it.
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RM is entirely correct, and im a doofus with few or no reading or comprehension skills, and misunderstood entirely what the item is, and decided to shoot my mouth off unnecessarily, indeed trash talking something on the basis of an incorrect assumption.


Sorry 'bout that, folks.
 
Quote from timbo:

Here you go acronym:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKpKSZGSkuo
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Lol, thanks a bunch, but rm is entirely correct.

Just as i was correct, in stating the very cover of the catologue to be tawdry, and hubristic was correct-if it said "excellence -in silversmithing", i could go with that, but it doesn't say that.

But to extrapolate the artistic basis of a cover Mr neiderhoffer likely had nothing to do with, as being reflective of anything at all , is doofus material.

You have to admit, that was some fine trash talk though:D


Soooo.....any bids yet?
 
you mean this guy?


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:D :D
 
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