To each their own I guess. To me live calls are worthless unless they are backed up by real money statements from a real money trading firm. I think back long ago to that guy who was pandering a $3000 daytrading course. His calls appeared very prescient and he claimed to trade for a living. But when the CFTC came in to investigate his claims they found that he had lost money six years in a row at a real money trading firm. Sadly, all they did was slap him with a $10,000 fine and make him refrain from saying he trade for a living in his promotional materials.
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- Thread starter Ghost_of_Blotto
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To each their own I guess. To me live calls are worthless unless they are backed up by real money statements from a real money trading firm. I think back long ago to that guy who was pandering a $3000 daytrading course. His calls appeared very prescient and he claimed to trade for a living. But when the CFTC came in to investigate his claims they found that he had lost money six years in a row at a real money trading firm. Sadly, all they did was slap him with a $10,000 fine and make him refrain from saying he trade for a living in his promotional materials.
Well, IMHO even if his performance claims were proven true in terms of his own trading - that is certainly no assurance that his clients would be similarly successful. If the trading strategy doesn't translate well to his clients, and if his clients aren't pleased with their results, then all that educator has proven is that he's successful at a strategy that either he can't communicate effectively to a client or that clients can't understand and put into action in the markets for themselves. Unfortunately it is in my opinion a myth that any profitable trader with statements and tax returns can take anyone willing to pay a fee and clone his performance.
If you take 1,000 profitable traders you will have 1,000 different strategies - each strategy having multiple variables and keys. The trick is making it work for another human being with 5 inches of wildcard between his ears.
>>>Unfortunately it is in my opinion a myth that any profitable trader with statements and tax returns can take anyone willing to pay a fee and clone his performance.<<<
I agree with that completely too! It's just that I have a thing about vendors who lie, cheat, and steal to convince the lemmings they are profitable traders when in fact they can't trade their way out of a paper bag.
I agree with that completely too! It's just that I have a thing about vendors who lie, cheat, and steal to convince the lemmings they are profitable traders when in fact they can't trade their way out of a paper bag.
At the same time, I don't think the idea is for anyone to pay a fee. This current discussion has come about just from several members on here helping several others without asking anything in return. (so this is what I'm assuming going forward. If instead a trader on here wants to teach for a fee, well this is a different topic all together)
I am intrigued by the idea of this thread, but do firmly believe that the results wouldn't help anyone trade. If a person is sharing something with you that they claim works, what is better proof.... seeing the results they got with it, or seeing how they do it and trying it for yourself? Its not like a new trader is enrolling in a year long course and paying money up front. If a trader is sharing a trading idea, then this idea should be fairly easy to test by the newbie. It shouldn't matter to the newbie if the pro can make money with it, what should matter to the newbie is if he can make money with it. (this idea was already brought forward up above)
So although I for one would absolutely love to see a statement from Db, and NoDoji, and Blotto, and any of the other members mentioned on here who supposedly are making a killing, how will this help me? Many wouldn't even share how they trade for fear of losing their edge. So if they are going to be helping someone by just giving little bits away as not to decrease their own performance, then their advice would be incomplete. If a member is sharing a well defined setup or system, then the newbie can figure out the worth of this system for himself. So the best case scenario is showing your profits along with how you do it, since showing your profits but not saying how you do it is pointless to me. Telling me what you do, but not telling me how much you make with it at least allows me to evaluate. And if you don't say how you do it, or how much you're making, you're probably just here for the chat!
Don't get me wrong, I would love love love to see this implemented in some way for entertainment, but I do believe it won't lead to better help being offered to us newbies. What matters most is what I can do with it because I am after all the weakest link in the trading chain.
KP, sorry for taking the thread for a stroll - it's just that 007Arb is such a quality conversationalist and that is SO rare these days on ET. Which segues nicely back to your point, KP. Even if ET had, let's say, 500 authenticated profitable genuine bonafide traders - unfortunately it does not mean that they will post even the occasional response, much less start a dedicated journal of each of their trades in sordid detail.
Most likely, "crowning" members won't necessarily make them more chatty and generous with their time and information. The reason I make this conclusion from my own clientele - they are all experienced traders and probably less than 10% of them post on ET. They are members with ID's, but they just don't want to post. In fact, by my estimation a dozen of them have made more money by their late 20's than I've made in a lifetime - ( they were very successful before they hired me ) - and they refuse to post on ET. It's not that they refuse to converse, it's that they despise the environment quite frankly.
Most likely, "crowning" members won't necessarily make them more chatty and generous with their time and information. The reason I make this conclusion from my own clientele - they are all experienced traders and probably less than 10% of them post on ET. They are members with ID's, but they just don't want to post. In fact, by my estimation a dozen of them have made more money by their late 20's than I've made in a lifetime - ( they were very successful before they hired me ) - and they refuse to post on ET. It's not that they refuse to converse, it's that they despise the environment quite frankly.
>>>Many wouldn't even share how they trade for fear of losing their edge.<<<
Another myth that winning traders have an edge. If they have an edge it's in how they manage their positions. Successful trading is 95% psychology/ trade management and 5% something else. Unfortunately, it's that 5% something else that the newbies spend all their time and effort on. The only true edge I ever recall exploiting was the datelining of international funds in the 90s. My bad as I was one of the first to ever write about this and sure enough, it wasn't long after that the fund companies put measures in place to halt this almost 100% sure fire method. Turns out that a lot of hedge funds were exploiting this edge too and one hedge fund manager let me know in no uncertain terms his displeasure with me making it so public.
Edit: Sorry for ranting so much the past couple days. Before then I hadn't posted here for years. Bad hiking weather has me behind bars (inside) the past couple days.
Another myth that winning traders have an edge. If they have an edge it's in how they manage their positions. Successful trading is 95% psychology/ trade management and 5% something else. Unfortunately, it's that 5% something else that the newbies spend all their time and effort on. The only true edge I ever recall exploiting was the datelining of international funds in the 90s. My bad as I was one of the first to ever write about this and sure enough, it wasn't long after that the fund companies put measures in place to halt this almost 100% sure fire method. Turns out that a lot of hedge funds were exploiting this edge too and one hedge fund manager let me know in no uncertain terms his displeasure with me making it so public.
Edit: Sorry for ranting so much the past couple days. Before then I hadn't posted here for years. Bad hiking weather has me behind bars (inside) the past couple days.
No problem about a stroll, I think this is all good.
It must be nice to be within a circle of people who actually walk the walk, not just talk the talk. But I know what you mean about a good conversationalist. I for one enjoy Db's posts, both for content and how they are written, along with the occasional dry humor and stating the obvious.
As much as people complain about how much BS there is on here, people still keep coming back, so I think ET is doing something right and its attracting lots of members for this reason. But I would love to the the IRS and see these statements, and I'd love to be the guy with access to every account at IB for example and see the spread of performance from highest grossing to the most consistent loser. Having these stats would be quite an eye opener, but still useless to my trading.
A pic of two of my favorite trading books - loved the no BS, get rich slowly and carefully message.
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Way behind the curve. Profit.ly and Covestor among severely other sites provide verified performance. This idea would ruin ET.
Provided the above--- doesn't it stand to reason that random entries are as successful as any other kind if there is no edge?