If over 90% es traders lose, some of them have to be professional and institutional traders. It's unrealistic that so many winning traders live on under-capitalized new retail traders. Not sure why I think about this a lot, maybe because of the books or online articles/discussions I've been reading, they keep reminding me to follow the professionals as if they always win.
Various ES Traders
- Thread starter hurricane_sh
- Start date
The other night at limit down 1999 there was 5000 sitting at the ask. Hard to imagine that was 500 mil notational retail selling.
...if you're serious, you should really hunker down and study on your own -- be like Rocky...living/training in the snowy mountains like a hermit.....the more you read random books and online discussion boards...the more you're just making yourself needlessly foggy in the brain.
If I experience it again, I will go long one contract.
It seems that the more I learn, the worse my trading becomes. I think I will either trade well or quit trading in one year, time will tell.
....the more you read random books and online discussion boards...the more you're just making yourself needlessly foggy in the brain.
I do think about it a lot, just being curious about institution traders.
90% is just a number... and I'm 100% sure it's about retail traders, and not in total money. Just that 9 mums/dads/etc doing some active trading on the side loses and only 1 makes a profit.
Institutional traders trade differently. They are more interested in the long term, even in their short term trading.... bigger pockets means they can keep losing for longer, or double down more and eventually get back in the plus.
Also, fees etc are higher for retail traders so their cost base is higher.
Some institutional traders mainly trade for orderflow and make the money on collecting fees instead of paying... and therefore can lose on the trade itself, but make more on the fees they charge.
And big funds that buy-and-hold should make a profit because of inflation...
Of course occasionally you have the big fuck-up by an institutional trader that blows up and loses a lot more than retail traders in total sum of money, like MF Global or Knight Capital.
Institutional traders trade differently. They are more interested in the long term, even in their short term trading.... bigger pockets means they can keep losing for longer, or double down more and eventually get back in the plus.
Also, fees etc are higher for retail traders so their cost base is higher.
Some institutional traders mainly trade for orderflow and make the money on collecting fees instead of paying... and therefore can lose on the trade itself, but make more on the fees they charge.
And big funds that buy-and-hold should make a profit because of inflation...
Of course occasionally you have the big fuck-up by an institutional trader that blows up and loses a lot more than retail traders in total sum of money, like MF Global or Knight Capital.
FWIW, load of bollox - professional traders me arse - few of them risk their own money.
Forget about all the story books - know that there is always no reward without risk, so get that sorted first.
Making money is easy, all you need do is "click click" - same for losing.
Recently someone mentioned successfully trading the ES with a $5k account, lol..wtf - the biggest market in the US, with those trading having access to billions of $$$ - just shows you how stupid people can really be!
Fuk the advertisers, fuk the "professionals", fuk the experts, fuk them all - it is YOUR money, not theirs, so make sure you don't hand it to them on a plate - like most do
J_S
Why?
Why does 90% of traders losing mean that 90% of ES traders are losing, anyway?
And even if it's true, wouldn't you expect that non-institutional traders are probably about 99% of the trader-numbers, even if only a small component of the volume traded?
Why?
It's what happens in forex-trading, and that's a far bigger market than ES.
There's an enormous turnover of undercaptalised new retail traders.
I suspect you're starting off from mistaken premises, here.
You also need to think carefully about exactly what "professional" means, I think, the way you've worded it (and perhaps therefore the way you're thinking about it?).
The advertisers do a good job, creating all the hype and harry potter type of thinking - it is, after all, mostly hogwash
Then you hear those talking about giving up their job and becoming "professional" traders - what fuked up world we live in - give up an income just because a bunch of dopes put out fancy advertising and books full of shite!
Be frugal, get rid of all debt- even if that means telling the woman who spends most to fuk off, and then start to risk a small bit until you see how it really is - a load of bollox
In case you think I am an "expert", I am just a fuked up idiot who has made and lost a good bit trading various stupid fukin markets - and they are all the fukin same - no risk, no reward!
If you work out this one - you have come a long way with learning what is required to not let the dopes keep you on the wrong path!
IAB..TSP..TLL
J_S