vantage point software

Hello,

I am a professional trader who works @ the Board of Trade in Chicago.

When I was new to trading I bought Vantagepoint for $5,025.

I naively believed it was a worthwhile investment into my success. Boy was I wrong.

Firstly, the software is a COMPLETE RIP OFF. One can emulate VP's predictions using simple exponential moving averages. Side note: I don't recommend EMAs

Secondly, the product DOES NOT actually analyze secondary markets to make a forecast.

I know this for an ABSOLUTE FACT because one day I erased the ten other markets it purportedly analyzed in determining its forecast & the forecast came out EXACTLY THE SAME.

The market was COMEX silver.

Vantagepoint is a complete rip-off.

If I didn't like the Lane Mendohlson on a personal level, I would sue to get my money back.

The software is sold out of Wesley Chapel, FL & guess what: NOBODY AT VANTAGEPOINT TRADES.

They tell you it's to avoid conflict of interest but in truth it's because the software is a waste of money.

In fact, let me do you one better.

VP's claim to fame was it's "moving average crossover" with a blue and black line.

Since then they've come out with "forecasted stochastics, forecasted RSI, forecasted MACD, " etc.

Now anybody who trades for a living, and uses SUPPORT AND RESISTANCE (all you need, anyhow) knows who stupid this is.

If the blue/black line can make you successful with "80% accuracy" then WHY do we even need the MACD, etc.?

ANSWER: Because the novice trader is wildly naive & totally incompetent at trading, relying on arbitrary indicators & oscillators.

Therefore, the novice (Reads: Naive & unprofitable) trader believes in the VALUE of oscillators & indicators & is therefore more likely to fork over $10,000 for this Bullsh*t product.

I thank God almight I found VantagePoint because it led me to my true calling - Buying @ Support, selling at Resistance.

Think: Sell EMINI S&P at 795 LIMIT; Buy at 798 STOP, if the observed resistance is 796. (As an example)

The ONLY reason there aren't good reviews of Vantagepoint here on ET is that our moderators had the good sense to REQUIRE thirty posts before reviewing software or brokers.

VANTAGEPOINT - CAVEAT EMPTOR.

VP is total junk.

What else would one expect from some j*rkoffs in FLORIDA selling trading software for $10,000?
LOL

If I didn't find my edge eventually, I'd probably be really pissed - like some of these people.


***********

Look, let me put this whole thing another way. The challenge with Vantagepoint to start is INDICATORS & OSCILLATORS SIMPLY DO NOT WORK.

They are liars.

They filter price action in an ARTIFICIAL MANNER.

Successful traders buy at support & sell at resistance.

Everyone else is chasing the market or just scalping ticks.

************

USE YOUR BETTER JUDGMENT WHEN CONSIDERING THIS 'SOFTWARE.'

Good luck to you & remember:

BUY @ SUPPORT, SELL @ RESISTANCE

Tell the SCAMMERS to kiss it! ;)
 
Yes, like I said in the beginning - people either 'love' VP, or they 'hate' VP -- 'everybody' has their opinion.

I knew when I posted here that this was a Thread that was pretty negative on VP, but I wanted to let you know about some other things going on with it, that's all. Some may not like it, think it is a ripoff, never got it to work well enough for them, whatever -- but that does not change the fact that others are using it, successfully.

There really are neural networks under the hood there -- are they infallible, perfect visionaries of 'the future'? -- nope. But neither are they some kind of grand scam posing as something they are not.

GC - I want to give you some updates, based on your comments:

Ok first, VP uses 25 related markets to do its calculations, not 10; it has been using 25 markets for over 2 years now -- so your comment indicates your experience was with an earlier version - and I can tell you from my own experience, the newer versions do give some improved results.

Second, your statement concerning calculations done without the intermarket data -- again, I don't know what version you were using, but again I can tell you, in the newer versions -- if intermarket data is not available -- calculations flat out do not happen.

A perfect example is on days that are holidays in the US, but not other parts of the world -- so forex data are available, foreign markets data are available -- but not US market data -- and VP chokes on the 'incompletes', and at best spits out predicted highs & lows for the next day, at most, and does not update/predict anything else -- this is what I have experienced, first hand.

Third - today I looked back over VP's performance this year with just one of the currency pairs, USD/JPY - using ~only ONE of VP's indicators - the "predicted neural index" - as an entry signal -- that's it --

There were 17 trades signaled, 14 of which were winners, on the very next trading day; -- that's a win rate over 80%.

Other indicators may "lie" as you said (and I don't necessarily disagree with you on that one) -- but not this one. And actually, adding a couple additional VP indicators to the analysis would improve both the win rate, and the profits.

These weren't tiny little scalps or something like that either - 13 of the 14 winners reached a 100pip profit target before the close on the entry day; the 14th moved 82 pips and retraced - but still closed the day in profit.

Fourth - support & resistance -- no disagreements there! If you're interested, you can check out this video posted by another VP user -- showing how she uses VP to help make trade decisions around Emini support & resistance levels. Here's the link:

http://www.traderplanet.com/Webinars/Addison/Webinar_2/SuppResVid.swf

Last -- you're a professional trader, working at the CBOT?? I bet I speak for a number of people here who would say, "we'd like to know more about that".
 
Lots of programs for support and resistance. So isn't the botton line ... is the apparently unique "Intermarket analysis" worth the premium price?
 
Quote from RobtF:

Lots of programs for support and resistance. So isn't the botton line ... is the apparently unique "Intermarket analysis" worth the premium price?
More...

I agree. That's a very expensive oscillator.

S&R with volume, which you can get from any vaguely reasonable tool is all that is necessary.
 
Quote from Tango46:

Yes, like I said in the beginning - people either 'love' VP, or they 'hate' VP -- 'everybody' has their opinion.

I knew when I posted here that this was a Thread that was pretty negative on VP, but I wanted to let you know about some other things going on with it, that's all. Some may not like it, think it is a ripoff, never got it to work well enough for them, whatever -- but that does not change the fact that others are using it, successfully.

There really are neural networks under the hood there -- are they infallible, perfect visionaries of 'the future'? -- nope. But neither are they some kind of grand scam posing as something they are not.

GC - I want to give you some updates, based on your comments:

Ok first, VP uses 25 related markets to do its calculations, not 10; it has been using 25 markets for over 2 years now -- so your comment indicates your experience was with an earlier version - and I can tell you from my own experience, the newer versions do give some improved results.

Second, your statement concerning calculations done without the intermarket data -- again, I don't know what version you were using, but again I can tell you, in the newer versions -- if intermarket data is not available -- calculations flat out do not happen.

A perfect example is on days that are holidays in the US, but not other parts of the world -- so forex data are available, foreign markets data are available -- but not US market data -- and VP chokes on the 'incompletes', and at best spits out predicted highs & lows for the next day, at most, and does not update/predict anything else -- this is what I have experienced, first hand.

Third - today I looked back over VP's performance this year with just one of the currency pairs, USD/JPY - using ~only ONE of VP's indicators - the "predicted neural index" - as an entry signal -- that's it --

There were 17 trades signaled, 14 of which were winners, on the very next trading day; -- that's a win rate over 80%.

Other indicators may "lie" as you said (and I don't necessarily disagree with you on that one) -- but not this one. And actually, adding a couple additional VP indicators to the analysis would improve both the win rate, and the profits.

These weren't tiny little scalps or something like that either - 13 of the 14 winners reached a 100pip profit target before the close on the entry day; the 14th moved 82 pips and retraced - but still closed the day in profit.

Fourth - support & resistance -- no disagreements there! If you're interested, you can check out this video posted by another VP user -- showing how she uses VP to help make trade decisions around Emini support & resistance levels. Here's the link:

http://www.traderplanet.com/Webinars/Addison/Webinar_2/SuppResVid.swf

Last -- you're a professional trader, working at the CBOT?? I bet I speak for a number of people here who would say, "we'd like to know more about that".
More...


Why dont you also take your trades on the Collective C2 website, this is an independently verified service where systems can be demo traded publicly. That way we will all see which trades you have entered and what your P/L really is, then there can be no arguements about whether VP works as stated.

I can see absolutely no reason why you couldnt do this. If you had 5 or 6 months of verified trades VP would sells hundreds of copies (assuming of course it was profitable).
 
Interesting, I did not know about the C2 site, will definitely check that out, it looks very cool!

I hope you realize, I'm not here to 'sell' VantagePoint or something like that, as I actually have no financial interest in the discussion -- I'm just a VP purchaser, who yes spent a bunch of money on it, and has worked pretty long & hard to get to the point of understanding how to use at least some of the power in the software effectively. I like sharing that with people who also have the SW and want to see at least one of many ways it can be used.

And 2nd, you do realize that on the TraderPlanet forum, I indeed post trades live, at entry, based on the method, -- and not in retrospect -- and let the chips fall where they may on the outcomes? That is the case.

The forum is at
http://traderplanet.com/forums/strategy-trading/48-trading-gbp-usd-using-vantagepoint-sw.html

I am attaching to this post a .jpg of the USD/JPY back test history I described in the previous post.

Also, if anyone is interested, there is a Newsletters page on TraderPlanet that includes several newsletters of interest, including 1 with VantagePoint strategies -- all free. The Newsletters are under the Education tab and the link is

http://traderplanet.com/index.php?page=newsletter

Cheers :cool:
 

Attachments

I was reading a post from traderplanet.com. The person who made the post seemed to be a sensible person with decent trading advice, and during one of his posts, he gave a quick mention to the vantagepoint software, as being a useful program which he uses to help him gain a trading edge. So I went to the tradertech.com site where they sell the software and I admit, after reading their promotion, I became very interested in buying it.
I did a bit more research and after finding several negative opinions on the product, I did a whois search on the traderplanet.com domain.

Registrant:
TradingEducation.Com, LLC
5807 Old Pasco Rd
Suite 100
Wesley Chapel, FL 33544
US

I then did a whois search on the tradertech.com domain.

Registrant:
Market Technologies, LLC
5807 Old Pasco Rd
Wesley Chapel, FL 33544
US


Needless to say, I will never be going back to the traderplanet.com site or buying the vantagepoint software.
 
Here is a post from ForexFactory, way back in Sept 08...
----------------------------------------------

No Conspiracy


I was shocked to learn that traderchat.com had gone 'off the air' as well. I had talked with Lane Mendelsohn (son of the Vantage Point founder & currently VP of Market Technologies) back about the time the site was getting started. I contacted him today when I saw your post <above> and asked 'what the heck happened'?? He clarified a couple of things:

(1) TraderChat.com is owned & operated by TradingEducation.com, not Market Technologies; they are 2 very separate entities and operations.

Lane IS involved in all those companies, as he IS actually the founder of TradingEducation.com, and they ARE housed in the same large office building as Market Technologies. These are not some kind of deep dark or sinister secrets folks -- they are public facts. In fact, Lane was interviewed by Stocks & Commodities magazine back in January of this year, and they discussed these issues.

The operations are totally separate, and most if not all the employees of Market Technologies are not employees of TradingEducation.com nor TraderChat.com.

TradingEducation.com & TraderChat.com subsist, survive & operate, based on advertising revenue. In other words -- advertisers 'pay per click' to the hosting website (TradingEducation & TraderChat) when users of those sites click on their ads. That was Lane's concept when he started the sites -- provide awesome resources for traders, free of charge, due to the ad revenue generated by the sites. He told me that Market Technologies actually pays advertising fees to the sites just like all the other advertisers.

Lane said the click-based revenue from the TraderChat.com site had dropped to the point it could not sustain the costs of its own operation -- and so it was shut down, pure & simple. Makes sense to me.

TradingEducation.com is much broader in its scope than 'just' Vantage Point, and Lane said the revenue from that site remains strong.

Why did traffic to the TraderChat website decline? Probably many reasons, not the least of which was surely that several of the Vantage Point 'super users' who were posting and contributing to the site got tired of being flamed and attacked by others -- so, they walked away.

I think that's a shame, and frankly, it irritates me, because ~alot~ of us would certainly like to read and learn more about and leverage their 'adventures' and experience and insights with Vantage Point!...

Do I think Vantage Point is a scam, a charlatan, a poser? No. Is it the holy grail, the 'black box' trading system, with iron clad, can't miss, buy-sell signals? Again, No. (the Company even goes to great lengths on their website, right next to the examples they post, to tell you that.)

Further: Am i related to them, do I work for them, do I have some vested interested in Market Technologies, or TraderEducation.com or any of that? Again, No.

I ~am~ however a fan of neural network technology, having developed and used them in some pretty significant engineering analyses involving orbit mechanics and space vehicle dynamics; I've seen neural nets interpolate on multi-dimensional data in ways no other tools could do, and provide the 'right' answers. Having that experience is what drew me to adding Vantage Point to my trading toolbox.

I think people should learn it, use it, or leave it -- just like any other consumer product. If someone has a beef with the Company, take it up with them; but don't take it out on people who are just working to use the software more and more effectively.
-----------------------------------------------
 
It's just amazing how some people are gullible.
I never thought this VP software did anything other than simple trend following and thus was definitely not worth its price.

Unfortunately for something to be sold you have to present outrageous claims -you have to the holygrail", "just 15 min a day". If you tell people they have to work and the signals only work 60-70% of the time, nobody will buy it.

So in a way people get what they deserve.


Also why would anyone here with a proven system spend time defending it. If I have a good system and others who use it can't make money with it and come whining about it, I am not going to tell the world that the system is great and I make plenty of money with it. I will just SHUT UP and laugh all the way to the bank hoping it lasts and not too many buy the system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top