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Vantage Point Software
- Thread starter uharttung
- Start date
High pressure software salesman are worse than used car salesman.Quote from jaw1958:
I really appreciate this thread. I just purchased VP last week and got all modules for 4500. The salesman was rather pushy and I probably wouldn't have bought it otherwise. He did give me a couple of references of people who use it and claim to have great success. Getting detail information from anyone including the salesman on solid methodology has proven difficult. I would very much like to hear from anyone willing to coach me a little. Someday I hope to become a winner at commodity trading.
But why did you shell out $4500 for software you had trouble getting information about, didn't have time to try, and sound like you're still hoping to figure out?
I can understand taking a swing at something you hadn't fully got yet if you'd tried it out for a couple of weeks or so and you saw promise AND it was under $1000. Admittedly I did that with Omnitrader at one point - no trial period (which sucked) but they at least had a 30 day return policy - but it took me longer than the return period to finally decide that it was useless crap - but it was only about $500 at the time - not $4500?? Yikes!!
Do these guys at least offer a 30 day money back guarantee??
As far as I know there is no "gurrantee" on VP. Sometimes high price is equated with quality, not that I am convinced of that yet. But I really have heard nothing negative about VP until I found this forum. My broker gave it a thumbs up and the refrences seemed believable. What I would really like from this forum is some practicle insight on the best ways to try out the software. That's the only way I can find out if the value is there.
Thanks
Jack Willis
Thanks
Jack Willis
Do you have a demo disk?
We do not send out demos to prospective clients. But you can get a sense of what VantagePoint looks like and how it operates from the website...
Is there a money-back guarantee?
Market Technologies Corporation does not use money-back guarantees as a way to sell tens of thousands of packages of software each year to the masses. This is not the way Louis Mendelsohn conducts himself. He only wants to work with traders who understand that to be successful it will take work on their part, and that they will need to make a total commitment to their success. Part of that commitment is psychological from the very beginning, when a new client first starts using VantagePoint. As a VantagePoint client, you have to be open-minded to the opportunity and confident that you can make it work for you.
Not only do we not need a money-back guarantee scheme to sell software, but in fact, many of our clients come back to order additional programs within the first couple of months of their initial order. We will show you enough information and help you feel sufficiently comfortable to come on board. We also help our clients after they become clients as well. Because we don't have thousands of clients coming on board each month with a trial/money back guarantee, we have the time to work with you once you are a client to get you up and running to help build your confidence so you can work on building up your account!
OK, that would scare me away. The buyer assumes complete liability for software that costs as much as a low end used car - no trial period and no money back guarantee if you find out you've bought a lemon. You get more protection when buying that used car.
For what it's worth, since you didn't get a trial/demo use period, I'd suggest you run it through it's paces pretty aggressively over the next couple of weeks keeping meticulous track of paper trades (but do it in realtime not with hindsight and be realistic about the fills and size the trades based on your actual account size) that you would presumably have executed based on its neural network "predictions" and also keep detailed record of those predictions and how accurate they and valuable (or not) they proved to be for you.
If at the end of two weeks your numbers don't show enough of a profit to make you comfortable that you could make a lot more than the software cost you - contact your credit card company and tell them the software doesn't work as advertised and you're returning it and aren't going to pay for it.
If they'd given you a trial use period you couldn't do that because you'd have already known what you were buying, but since they're making you buy a pig in a poke, your credit card company should be willing to work with you. If you have any trouble getting your money back, contact your state attorney's office.
Good luck.
We do not send out demos to prospective clients. But you can get a sense of what VantagePoint looks like and how it operates from the website...
Is there a money-back guarantee?
Market Technologies Corporation does not use money-back guarantees as a way to sell tens of thousands of packages of software each year to the masses. This is not the way Louis Mendelsohn conducts himself. He only wants to work with traders who understand that to be successful it will take work on their part, and that they will need to make a total commitment to their success. Part of that commitment is psychological from the very beginning, when a new client first starts using VantagePoint. As a VantagePoint client, you have to be open-minded to the opportunity and confident that you can make it work for you.
Not only do we not need a money-back guarantee scheme to sell software, but in fact, many of our clients come back to order additional programs within the first couple of months of their initial order. We will show you enough information and help you feel sufficiently comfortable to come on board. We also help our clients after they become clients as well. Because we don't have thousands of clients coming on board each month with a trial/money back guarantee, we have the time to work with you once you are a client to get you up and running to help build your confidence so you can work on building up your account!
OK, that would scare me away. The buyer assumes complete liability for software that costs as much as a low end used car - no trial period and no money back guarantee if you find out you've bought a lemon. You get more protection when buying that used car.
For what it's worth, since you didn't get a trial/demo use period, I'd suggest you run it through it's paces pretty aggressively over the next couple of weeks keeping meticulous track of paper trades (but do it in realtime not with hindsight and be realistic about the fills and size the trades based on your actual account size) that you would presumably have executed based on its neural network "predictions" and also keep detailed record of those predictions and how accurate they and valuable (or not) they proved to be for you.
If at the end of two weeks your numbers don't show enough of a profit to make you comfortable that you could make a lot more than the software cost you - contact your credit card company and tell them the software doesn't work as advertised and you're returning it and aren't going to pay for it.
If they'd given you a trial use period you couldn't do that because you'd have already known what you were buying, but since they're making you buy a pig in a poke, your credit card company should be willing to work with you. If you have any trouble getting your money back, contact your state attorney's office.
Good luck.
Quote from jaw1958:
I really appreciate this thread. I just purchased VP last week and got all modules for 4500. The salesman was rather pushy and I probably wouldn't have bought it otherwise. He did give me a couple of references of people who use it and claim to have great success. Getting detail information from anyone including the salesman on solid methodology has proven difficult. I would very much like to hear from anyone willing to coach me a little. Someday I hope to become a winner at commodity trading.
Yup, very pushy salesman I was dealing with, and, you guess it right, I didn't buy it since they wouldn't let me do a trial. (Actually, I wouldn't mind paying a modest fee to try, but they wouldn't even give you that option.) I was also disappointed with Lou's book, which reads more like an infomercial. In any case, I do like the idea behind it, and I hope those of you who bought it will find it useful. But shelling out thousands of dollar for a product with no money-back guarantee or without a trial is just out of the question for me. And I got tired of black-box type of system with that kind of sales pitch. Since then, I've been learning to develop my own trading systems with Amibroker, in conjunction with plain old visual analysis.
stock.
I asked a rep of Vantage-point and he sent me the stats for the "accuracy"-test, didnt say much about how it was done though, I suppose like the guy above that the high numbers coincides with trends lasting a number of days. Hence if today was higher than yesterday, there is a bias towards tomorrow following suit. That way the software reaps high accuracy predicting continuations.
Anyway, that guy LOU does not seem like a genious to me, I think he just applied conmmon neural-network-sense (proper de-noising of inputs etc) to a number of combined markets. My guess is that you could come pretty close designing your own system based on some of the basic premises of neural-network design. This guy Lou, most of his "articles" are dated from 1996 or so. Neural-network research has come a long way since then.
The trick is how to profit from the knowledge. As stated you cant just trade the ma-crossovers, rather use the predicted values to enhance an already working methodology.
Anyway, that guy LOU does not seem like a genious to me, I think he just applied conmmon neural-network-sense (proper de-noising of inputs etc) to a number of combined markets. My guess is that you could come pretty close designing your own system based on some of the basic premises of neural-network design. This guy Lou, most of his "articles" are dated from 1996 or so. Neural-network research has come a long way since then.
The trick is how to profit from the knowledge. As stated you cant just trade the ma-crossovers, rather use the predicted values to enhance an already working methodology.
PPrib,
Don't waste your time. After researching thoroughly and spending TOO much many, I find NO usefulness for this software. Its hard to believe people can sleep well at night selling this crap.
Incidentally, I was using Genesis data. But get Tradestation and devise your own indicators and strategies. Its cheap and effective.
-Lizard
Don't waste your time. After researching thoroughly and spending TOO much many, I find NO usefulness for this software. Its hard to believe people can sleep well at night selling this crap.
Incidentally, I was using Genesis data. But get Tradestation and devise your own indicators and strategies. Its cheap and effective.
-Lizard