UVXY features and shorting VIX

[lindq]

Thanks for your reply. Are VIX futures easily available for a small investor to trade? E.g. is it possible to have only tiny exposure on the VIX, let's say around $10k, so that if VIX spikes 100%, you lose $10k if you close the position immediately?

Do yourself a favor and move on. Come back to VIX instruments after you have 10 years of experience in the markets, and even then tread lightly. You'll thank me later.

 

[movingslow]

Do yourself a favor and move on. Come back to VIX instruments after you have 10 years of experience in the markets, and even then tread lightly. You'll thank me later.

Ok, but please explain what in my post made you think so. I'm here to learn you know

 

[Overnight]

Thanks for your reply. Are VIX futures easily available for a small investor to trade? E.g. is it possible to have only tiny exposure on the VIX, let's say around $10k, so that if VIX spikes 100%, you lose $10k if you close the position immediately?

The short answer is no. (Assuming you are short here). For example, on the CBOE the VX has an initial/ON requirement of ~$8,800. $50 per tick, so $1,000 per point.

If the VX is currently at, say, 15, and spiked to 30, you are now looking at an instant $15,000 loss, plus the 8800 requirement for it to recover.. So you'd need $23,000 to cover your short position.

I spent some time watching the VX data these past few months, and it should not be used as a speculative instrument just to trade, but only as a hedge. The thing is still (last I saw) in high contango as you go out into the future, and so shorting it along the way may make you money through rolls.

But then the vola spike hits, yer screwed.

 

[Sig]

I short volatility quite often and even run an automated TVIX trading strategy (long/short), so I am with you in terms of profit potential and limiting risk via position sizing. I dabble in VIX futures as well but not seriously until I’ll have time to backtest related strategies and ideas. I do have amazing strategies for trading VIX index itself (cash), if it could be traded itself, but it cannot. I do plan to backtest futures in the future.
Every strategy needs to be backtested, so that would be my advice: backtest it, whether by writing some code or manually in Excel or ToS, and/or at least trade with small sizing and limited risk like you mentioned.

We would all be billionaires if it was possible to trade VIX cash.
There was actually a set of VIX ETFs a couple years ago that claimed through some smoke and mirrors that they would track the cash VIX and inverse. I can't even find their names now, so they must have failed, but if anyone remembers let me know so I can see how long it took them to fail.

 

[Overnight]

I am guessing there is a vol spike happening right now across some asset classes, what with the new doom and gloom of the Middle East happening.

 

[lindq]

Ok, but please explain what in my post made you think so. I'm here to learn you know

VIX futures are a poor trading instrument. Wide spreads, thinly traded, and very dangerous in the wrong hands.

You cannot rely on stops on any VIX products in a black swan event. Risk control in every scenario must always be top of mind in looking at any market or strategy.

This is not a gentle space to work in. It is littered with bodies,.

There are very profitable ways to approach VIX. But they exist at level 25 on the game of trading.

 

[movingslow]

There are very profitable ways to approach VIX. But they exist at level 25 on the game of trading.

Thanks. By level 25, do you mean that the strategies are very sophisticated, or that they are only available to traders with large bankrolls due to capital requirements etc.?

 

[lindq]

Thanks. By level 25, do you mean that the strategies are very sophisticated, or that they are only available to traders with large bankrolls due to capital requirements etc.?

Level of experience, capital, knowledge of risk control, etc. etc.