Last time I checked (1/2 yr ago), they don't have TIKI (for Dow) on IB.
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Using the $TICK for confirmation
- Thread starter pitbulltrader
- Start date
TICK indicator can be used in 2 ways..... one is early indicator and other is a rearview mirror.
First off, if using the TICK on 5min or longer time frame, all you are doing is getting a "feel" for the mkt direction. How many times is it hitting the +600 to +1000 upper levels vs the lower levls, and where is it basing... finding support etc. This will generally tell you as an example... if TICK is constantly hitting +600 and finding support at 0 line....... then the wise thing to do is to buy on pullbacks.... instead of shorting. BUT....... this will not help you when mkt reversus and heads the other way.... since there is no gaurentee any conditions will stay constant for very long. If using TICK like this.... you also would generally use its brothers and sisters to confirm mkt direction: I.E. the following:
$PREM
TRIN
Put/call
$VIX
All are generally giving you similar readings on mkt direction.
How i use the TICK to pin point turns in price or mkt direction:
1. I use 1 or 2min time frame on both TICK and price (YM).
2. I WAIT....repeat... I WAIT until price rallies / falls to a support /
resistance area... or moving average. (You pick your fav MA or
MAs) Ex: If mkt eternals are suggesting a bearish day.....
i wait until price rallies to a 10 or 20ma thats sloping down.)
3. I focus on the TICK level in relation to price.
So if TICK just made a new high in the last 10 minutes... i then look at price and look to see if it also traded higher in the last 10 minutes...or 5 minutes..( time not important... whats important is if it went higher in the same manner or strengh that the TICK did.)
So... lets say the TICK just went higher than the last TICK candle it made.... I look to see if price candle also manged to trade higher than its last candle. What happens is when price reaches key levels... an early heads up to what will happen next is to focus on the TICK and price and see if they diversge or stay in sync. So if Price is constantly nibbling the low of day (support are) but TICK is climbing higher and reaching a prior peak....guess what will happen to price when TICK hooks back down and starts to fall to prior level.... price will break support and fall. Think of price as a wagon... and TICK as a mule pulling it...... If TICK is making its way up to a prior high area... but price is stuck near the bottom... then this is a divergence...and when TICK falls....price will fall. Its as if TICK was trying its hardest to pull price up with it....but all it managed was to keep price suspendend in place... so now when TICK begins to come down.......price falls apart. The opposite also happens... if price is at a high level area.... nibbling to make a new high.... and TICK is way on the bottom at (say -400) ... as soon as TICK hooks back up and begins to trade near prior area oh high points.. say +700.. then price will make a new high. TICK levels are not that important for this... what you look for is the mean and support areas. Dont confuse this with trading off the $TICK at extremes....I.E. going short when TICK is at +1000 or going long when TICK is at -1000... thats diffrent technique than what i discussed aqbove.
I tryed to explain it as simple as i could... but its hard to explain it with out charts. This thecnique works great.... when used correctly...(must wait untill price is at key level on intrady chart.... big moves always happen... like a dam bursting.)
Hope this helps.
First off, if using the TICK on 5min or longer time frame, all you are doing is getting a "feel" for the mkt direction. How many times is it hitting the +600 to +1000 upper levels vs the lower levls, and where is it basing... finding support etc. This will generally tell you as an example... if TICK is constantly hitting +600 and finding support at 0 line....... then the wise thing to do is to buy on pullbacks.... instead of shorting. BUT....... this will not help you when mkt reversus and heads the other way.... since there is no gaurentee any conditions will stay constant for very long. If using TICK like this.... you also would generally use its brothers and sisters to confirm mkt direction: I.E. the following:
$PREM
TRIN
Put/call
$VIX
All are generally giving you similar readings on mkt direction.
How i use the TICK to pin point turns in price or mkt direction:
1. I use 1 or 2min time frame on both TICK and price (YM).
2. I WAIT....repeat... I WAIT until price rallies / falls to a support /
resistance area... or moving average. (You pick your fav MA or
MAs) Ex: If mkt eternals are suggesting a bearish day.....
i wait until price rallies to a 10 or 20ma thats sloping down.)
3. I focus on the TICK level in relation to price.
So if TICK just made a new high in the last 10 minutes... i then look at price and look to see if it also traded higher in the last 10 minutes...or 5 minutes..( time not important... whats important is if it went higher in the same manner or strengh that the TICK did.)
So... lets say the TICK just went higher than the last TICK candle it made.... I look to see if price candle also manged to trade higher than its last candle. What happens is when price reaches key levels... an early heads up to what will happen next is to focus on the TICK and price and see if they diversge or stay in sync. So if Price is constantly nibbling the low of day (support are) but TICK is climbing higher and reaching a prior peak....guess what will happen to price when TICK hooks back down and starts to fall to prior level.... price will break support and fall. Think of price as a wagon... and TICK as a mule pulling it...... If TICK is making its way up to a prior high area... but price is stuck near the bottom... then this is a divergence...and when TICK falls....price will fall. Its as if TICK was trying its hardest to pull price up with it....but all it managed was to keep price suspendend in place... so now when TICK begins to come down.......price falls apart. The opposite also happens... if price is at a high level area.... nibbling to make a new high.... and TICK is way on the bottom at (say -400) ... as soon as TICK hooks back up and begins to trade near prior area oh high points.. say +700.. then price will make a new high. TICK levels are not that important for this... what you look for is the mean and support areas. Dont confuse this with trading off the $TICK at extremes....I.E. going short when TICK is at +1000 or going long when TICK is at -1000... thats diffrent technique than what i discussed aqbove.
I tryed to explain it as simple as i could... but its hard to explain it with out charts. This thecnique works great.... when used correctly...(must wait untill price is at key level on intrady chart.... big moves always happen... like a dam bursting.)
Hope this helps.
While I used the TICK for some time....you need to be very careful how you use it. The TICK is based on the NYSE and all its stocks. Many use it for the e-mini S&P 500 and the ER. The problem is....there are many more stocks in the NYSE....and while many in the S&P 500 are in the NYSE....this difference needs to be taken into consideration. Also....the ER is based on small cap stocks....not the same as the stocks in the NYSE....which is totally different.
When I did use the TICK....I used the Data only....didn't care about plotting it on a chart. I only needed to Glance at the Data....to see what was happening. Also....I found it best to use the TICK....TIKQ....and the TIKI...."together"....to confirm a Market move. If all three were at a specific level....you could Enter the trade....because....the odds are....it is a Market move. If only the TIKI....for instance....is at a high level....but the TICK and TIKQ are not....then the odds are....it is not a Market move. My opinion is....with Market moves....you have a much better chance of a successful trade.
I use TradeStation....and I believe they have....or are working on....a "TICK" for the ER....but not sure....because I don't use it anymore. They also have the TIKQ for the NQ. And....of course....they have the TIKI for the YM.
My trading....my charts....are much simpler now....don't need all the other indicators. Takes too long to make a decision....when you have too many Indicators and have too much Information to look at. My firm belief is...."Too Much Information"....can be just as bad or worse than not enough information.
VSTscalper
When I did use the TICK....I used the Data only....didn't care about plotting it on a chart. I only needed to Glance at the Data....to see what was happening. Also....I found it best to use the TICK....TIKQ....and the TIKI...."together"....to confirm a Market move. If all three were at a specific level....you could Enter the trade....because....the odds are....it is a Market move. If only the TIKI....for instance....is at a high level....but the TICK and TIKQ are not....then the odds are....it is not a Market move. My opinion is....with Market moves....you have a much better chance of a successful trade.
I use TradeStation....and I believe they have....or are working on....a "TICK" for the ER....but not sure....because I don't use it anymore. They also have the TIKQ for the NQ. And....of course....they have the TIKI for the YM.
My trading....my charts....are much simpler now....don't need all the other indicators. Takes too long to make a decision....when you have too many Indicators and have too much Information to look at. My firm belief is...."Too Much Information"....can be just as bad or worse than not enough information.
VSTscalper
Quote from VSTscalper:
While I used the TICK for some time....you need to be very careful how you use it. The TICK is based on the NYSE and all its stocks. Many use it for the e-mini S&P 500 and the ER. The problem is....there are many more stocks in the NYSE....and while many in the S&P 500 are in the NYSE....this difference needs to be taken into consideration. Also....the ER is based on small cap stocks....not the same as the stocks in the NYSE....which is totally different.
VSTscalper
good point....to clarify i am using it to trade ES.
Pitbulltrader......adding a chart to help clarify my previous post. hope its clear.
the 5 minute ES is top chart. below it is 5 minute CCI, below that (candlesticks) is 3 minute $tick, bottom is 10 minute CCI.
what you'll notice is a lightly circled tick bar (in center of screen)that broke above its preceding range. what makes that bar important is that it happened after 5 and 10 minute cci bottomed signaling a possible change in momentum and a possible reversal of the trend.
This was a nice clear example and they are usually pretty obvious. But to emphasize i use them in combination with other indicators (CCI). I have never figured out how to use $tick by itself with aany accuracy. Other indicators have been mentioned in the post that may work as well. I personally prefer CCI.
what can be a little difficult is the discretionary aspect. it may seem unclear at first where to decide the current range is and when it is being broken but with alot of screen time just watching (took me months) you get a feel for this and can spot the not so obvious breakouts.
the 5 minute ES is top chart. below it is 5 minute CCI, below that (candlesticks) is 3 minute $tick, bottom is 10 minute CCI.
what you'll notice is a lightly circled tick bar (in center of screen)that broke above its preceding range. what makes that bar important is that it happened after 5 and 10 minute cci bottomed signaling a possible change in momentum and a possible reversal of the trend.
This was a nice clear example and they are usually pretty obvious. But to emphasize i use them in combination with other indicators (CCI). I have never figured out how to use $tick by itself with aany accuracy. Other indicators have been mentioned in the post that may work as well. I personally prefer CCI.
what can be a little difficult is the discretionary aspect. it may seem unclear at first where to decide the current range is and when it is being broken but with alot of screen time just watching (took me months) you get a feel for this and can spot the not so obvious breakouts.
Attachments
Wow so many great replies so I'll try to get to them in order...let me start by thanking all of you who are sharing so freely your ideas and comments..I appreciate them...Now if I can fiqure out how to quote people we will be good to go....
I liked this trade too and was averaging in....I was watching the single ticks from market profile if my memory serves me ..I agree that a good tick push into a well know resistence or support area can sometimes be a good fade as long as you have other reasons to be in the trade...so the Tick becomes a good secondary indicator.....looks like my quoting abilities need improvement....
BoyBrutus
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
04-14-06 05:45 AM
4) I have heard people say they watch the first pullback to zero after new Tick highs for buying opportunities but I have found this inconsistent...say with new Tick lows..
This provides good confirmation to hop on the morning rally, say between 10:30 to 11:00. Soon as I suspect a setup and see the aggressive buying start I wait for the pull back, although the tick readings may not drop all the way to zero. The later you enter in the move, the less pullback and the higher the tick readings. It is also a method valid for trend days on pullbacks. applying it to any move is not a good idea.
I had a well timed short on the 1000+ tick at 1298.50 on Thursday 11:12. If I did not anticipate the move then the tick reading would have been not nearly as helpful. Note this was also successive lower tick reading
I liked this trade too and was averaging in....I was watching the single ticks from market profile if my memory serves me ..I agree that a good tick push into a well know resistence or support area can sometimes be a good fade as long as you have other reasons to be in the trade...so the Tick becomes a good secondary indicator.....looks like my quoting abilities need improvement....
afedoro
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 20
04-14-06 08:35 AM
The TICK is not very reliable as a standalone indicator but I've noticed that it can help to spot some very short-term opportunities if you not only look at the level (extremes) but also at how fast it got there.
When the TICK moves to an extreme and does it very quickly, the move can often be faded successfully. But you've got to be careful because sometimes it can also be a real breakout/breakdown.
I keep a 1-minute TICK chart with an alert that triggers when the TICK moves to an extreme (+/- 600) at a minimum speed of 300 points per minute (in a single bar).
Hi Alex any chance of you sending out a few charts as another post also mentions the speed at which the Tick gets to an extreme..I have heard that a slow "ooze" up or down are really not the types on tick moves you want to fade
Hi Charles...what do you do on gaps up or down as this may prematurely send out a long or a short signal using a crossover...I like the concept though...Quote from CharlesTrader:
PitBull,
I have had similar problems trying to use the TICK indicator.
Lately, I have used the 50 and 200 exponential moving average of the TICK close on the 1 min chart for the ES contract to help determine long or short bias in the underlying market. I also use ADX of the ES price chart to help with the strength of that bias.
Charles
Quote from easyrider:
I was just going to let this die but since I went off topic and ran my mouth I cant just walk away. I did misread you and if youve been trading ES succesfully for several years then I should be getting advice from you. These are the patterns I traded this week. Im sure you have seen them hundreds of times but they work very well. I have a binder full of them,
Thanks for coming throughEasyrider..although I am not a moving average fan I can basically see what you may be doing...thanks for taking the time to send us the charts and I apologize if I came on too strong with my original reply