i guess if i personally went through any of these ordeals like you did i would probably be putting in car alarms, etc. but ive just livedmy entire life this way, and find it humourous (sorry your bad situations are not humorous) how different the 2 societies are in general about trusting one another. i also freely give away my credit card number over the phone the food delivery people, lol its just different i guess, i feel bads for you that quebec is all you got to see of canada, probably left a sour taste in your mouth lol.
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- Thread starter eagle488
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i guess if i personally went through any of these ordeals like you did i would probably be putting in car alarms, etc. but ive just livedmy entire life this way, and find it humourous (sorry your bad situations are not humorous) how different the 2 societies are in general about trusting one another. i also freely give away my credit card number over the phone the food delivery people, lol its just different i guess, i feel bads for you that quebec is all you got to see of canada, probably left a sour taste in your mouth lol.
sounds like a really nice place....too bad we cant enjoy the same. I used to leave my door open in gainesville when i was a student and would come home and have my friends there hanging out even when i wasnt there to receive them...that all stopped when Rollins started killing mo-fo's at random...but it was nice while it lasted...cant do that here in miami....they come in even when the door is locked :eek:
believe me if i had the same shit happening in my neighbourhood id do the same, i guess its something i have to be thankful for even though i live in buttf&*$ no where, its nice being able to live feeling 100% safe at all times, or maybe since im 22 im just naieve
Hi dwl603,
I problably got you confused and I apologized.
I never said nor hinted Quebec has put a sour taste in my mouth.
It's one of the best places to live in the world.
All the horrible things I've seen in life did not occur in Quebec.
Crime is everywhere, name the city you live in and I'll find a link or newspaper article about crime in your town.
That's not the point, we tend to do things in life only after a problem.
My relatives in France don't lock their door, they don't have a car alarm nor home security and own about 100k of art collection (they do have insurance).
Yet, one day a neighbor was burglarized (first in +20 years).
The son (my cousin) was so concerned...he got his parents a home security system even though he lives in Atlanta, Georgia.
I never had a car alarm while I thought it was silly of those I am friends with (U.S. and Canada) for having a car alarm.
I would say to myself...so what...someone breaks into your car and steals some CDs.
Yet, my view quickly changed when I had my car broken into and the following items where stolen:
* CD's
* Stereo
* Spouse purse
* Birthday present in the trunk
* Baby car seat
It happen at a mall in day light.
We all know a car alarm isn't going to stop a thief.
However, it can make it difficult and gives us the power to do something instead of doing absolutely nothing.
By the way, I shop regularly online.
However, doesn't imply I do it without having security in place for my online purchases.
Whereas my spouse dad...he fears online shopping.
Refuses to do it...says everybody online are scam artists only because a friend of his got ripped off on an online purchase.
Yet, my spouse dad doesn't lock his door at night, doesn't have home security nor a car alarm.
Supposibly he's a very trusting person.
Everybody is different until they become a victim or have someone they care about that becomes a victim.
However, if you really think about it...your exercising security yourself.
Simply, there's a reason why you don't post your home address here at ET after announcing you don't have a car alarm nor home security system.
My point, you do take precautions...
Security precautions so that you can continue not fearing to lock your doors.
What are the odds someone will take your address info if you were to post it for all to see at ET and show up at your home at 1am est or any other time in the night.
Most likely very low but why take that chance.
Strange huh and I do the same in a restuarant only because I was the victim in a restaurant...
If the restuarant is careless...I no longer am willing to take that chance especially when I'm not just protecting the privacy of myself...
I'm also protecting the privacy of my family (an obligation) along with alowing myself to feel secure enough to continue going to restaurants.
Others call it bad taste, offensive, harassing, stalking...
Makes you wonder about people.
Mark
man Mark you are so right it isnt even funny, now that i think of this, it absolutely encapsulates my old man, "afraid of the internet" yet wont lock his own front sdoor, lol, makes you wonder where our future takes us......be it u.s. or canadian......
Yes, and so? If you were to constantly worry and/or take action about every possible negative thing that could happen in your life then (1) you could never enjoy life and (2) you would spend all your time and energy trying to prevent something that may or may not ever happen.
Funny but when my car was broken into and things were stolen I called my insurance company, got the things replaced/repaired at their expense and went on with my life.
Doing nothing can be an appropriate choice. Its certainly a personal choice of the amount of cost and/or effort the "doing something" requires vs the risk of doing nothing.
You probably already know about this but one way to mitigate online shopping credit card risk is to use a credit card company that allows you to generate temporary "one-time" credit card numbers for a fixed amt, short-expiration. Citibank and MBNA(now BoA) both offer it, probably others. I only use it for merchants that I have never dealt with before or seem shady not mainstream purchases.
You do understand the difference between a passive action like not posting your details on the internet vs active actions that require effort like following around waiters/not ever letting your credit cards out of your sight?
Because the chance that your credit card number will be stolen from you from a restuarant (and used for identity theft) is exceedingly low and the effort required to prevent a credit card from ever leaving your sight is relatively high. And on top of that following your card around is not an effective solution to the problem.
I find it interesting in your first post in this thread that you said you always follow the waiter around after you heard about a court case involving scamming waitresses however then later in this thread you mentioned that you yourself had been victimized in a restaurant (no details given). Something doesn't jive there, were you a victim first or did you hear about this court case first? It seems like if you never have let the card out of your sight since you heard about this case then you should not have been a victim of restaurant credit card fraud/identity theft. Care to explain?
Your credit card info is not the preferred way for identity thieves to collect information.
It is much easier to take someone's name and address (preferrably someone who has a big house courtesy of public property records) and get an internet report on them that has tons more information (including SS#) Why would anyone in this day and age use restuarant credit card receipts as the starting point for identity theft? It just doesn't make any sense.
Although I find no humor...
I did the same thing and if you need a timeline (sarcasm)...
1. I called the mall security and police.
2. I took photographs with my digital camera.
3. I called my insurance company.
4. Three days later I get a car alarm to make spouse happy.
5. Three weeks later everything stolen has been replaced with new.
6. Few months later...car alarm goes off in the middle of the night...I look out the window and see several teenagers running away.
I recognize one of them and go visit his parents after asking other kids where this kid lived at along with notifying neighbors what has occurred and I told them the identity of one of the teenagers involved.
Parents apologize, said they would take care of it.
I did not contact the police and the small dent in the door is easily fixed (insurance)...parents offered compensation.
Exactly...its a choice even after becoming a victim.
Just don't tell a victim of any crime not to do nothing...
That's just rude and I'm not implying your trying to tell me how I should respond when I'm a victim or has been a victim (sarcasm)
Simply, some people when a crime is committed against them do not press charges or do not want the criminal to be prosecuted.
They give forgiveness and carry on with their life.
However, others do not forgive...other's feel violated et cetera and they want the person punish or they want to do something productive to possibly prevent such from occurring again.
I have a friend that was rape, she forgave her attacker (a guy that broke into her apartment) and decided not to press charges.
I have another friend that was slugged in the face at a party, knocked unconscious, broken bones in his face via a sucker punch...
He press charges and the assaulter is charged with assault & battery and later is convicted.
My friend had been mistaken for someone else by a jealous boyfriend.
Back to my friend that was raped although she didn't press charges...
She now has a roommate, sees a psycho-therapist and has a home security system.
What would you have done in the above situations if you were the victim to lead this conversation into your next statement???
I don't constantly worry about every possible negative thing nor did I say that nor imply that.
Therefore, I agree with you in that if someone else were to live their life worrying about every little negative thing in life...
It's not good.
However, since you gave no details or explanation or examples of negative things (I did)...
I'm sure someone else reading this can argue that some negative things requires worrying about and I'm not being sarcastic.
Reason why I asked you a specific question that you didn't respond to...
Do you have a car alarm, home security, own a gun for protection?
Lets expand that question...do you use a anti-spam program, internet security program et cetera?
I shop online as clearly stated along with doing such securely.
I also clearly stated that I know someone else that is specifically fearful of shopping online.
Therefore, I'm going to assume your statement was not meant for me and was aimed at those reading this thread.
The odds of you or I being shot in the head (murder) by a neighbor with a gun is also exceedingly low.
Yet, it can happen, I know such for fact and that's the point.
The issue as repeated often in this thread...its not following your card.
Everything else you said in the quote represented by ... is a personal choice that should be based upon ones own personal past experiences.
You've made a choice (my assumption) not to be concerned with whom has access to your card at a restaurant or anywhere else...including other patrons.
If I'm wrong with the above statement...that's my point because I am concerned with those that have access to my card in which I did not give them permission to view my card or look at any info on the restaurant computer screen that's associated with my credit card.
Hopefully that's clear.
I never said it was the preferred way nor implied such.
I'm sure there's hundreds of ways for identity thieves to collect information and credit card fraud is just one particular method.
Call your CC issurer or the local police and have them explain it to you.
Also, you can ask your question at a few of the Security/Identity Theft forums that are online.
Mark
Your other questions...
First of all, why would you specifically state something doesn't jive when you knew I didn't provide any timeline?
Had you just stated you wanted a timeline...that's different...timeline is provided below.
However, to say something doesn't jive before your request of any timeline facts tells me something else.
Regardless, I did give one specific detailed about one particular CC fraud, you probably missed it amongst my ramblings.
Further, your quote implies via the way its worded I follow the waiter anywhere (kitchen, bathroom, next table they wait on et cetera).
Just to be clear even though I know what you meant or didn't imply...
I just wanted to ensure someone reading your quote doesn't think I said something else...
I said, very specifically, I get up and follow the waitress/waiter back to their credit card scanner.
A few posts later, I got even more specific via describing I don't follow them anywhere else except to the payment counter where the credit card scanner is located at.
Further posts later after that, I got even more specific via describing exactly what would prompt me to get out of my seat...
Seeing other paying patrons at the payment counter or seeing waitresses/waiterers carelessly putting down the credit card of another patron for anyone to read or steal.
In addition, I said, if there aren't any patrons at the payment counter...there's no need for me to get up because I have some assurance that the waitress/waiter is the only person that has the opportunity to view my credit card info and not other patrons standing in line to make their payment.
Since your eager for a timeline...
1. I worked in a restaurant myself in college (one summer only).
Some very nice people I worked with and some very not nice people I worked with (I knew about some of their other activities).
2. Many years later...different state...I became a victim of credit card fraud by a restaurant employee.
Employee is later fired.
3. Many years later...I became a victim of credit card fraud by a restaurant employee a second time (different restaurant).
Employee is later fired and arrested for other related crimes.
4. A few years later...I'm sitting in court waiting to get a in person look at a killer of a relative during the killer's arraignment...
There are these other cases and almost all of them involve Identity Theft of different types.
The thing is this...until those court cases...
I never classified the prior credit card frauds as Identity Theft.
I only look at it as credit card fraud and saw Identity Theft as something completely different.
For example, someone pretending to be you or I to secure a loan from the bank et cetera.
5. Several months later, talking to a niece at Univ of Illinois about our cousin...
She tells me about some waitress scamming (skimming) credit card numbers.
All of the above...I start doing some research (online, talking to friend that's a state trooper et cetera)...
I find out that Identity Theft is big business...fastest growing crime.
Now...I'm thinking...I was naive in when I was young when the first credit card fraud occurred...
How can I protect myself now.
I give my credit card issurer a phone call along with checking out the security recommendations they make at their website.
* Check your credit report once per year (its free)
* Don't let your credit card out of your sight
* They also recommend I get a security code on my account and a few other things.
I'm now thinking....that's easy to do.
They also recommend other things...probably stuff you already know about or can find out by calling your own CC issurer.
The point, those that view your credit card with your permission...you want to know whom they are.
For example, lets pretend you have a brand new credit card...never used.
You go to a restaurant and after your meal you go to the front counter to pay your bill via that brand new credit card.
Cash register gal scans your card, scans it again and then again...everything is ok.
Later in the month you get your first CC bill...just the restaurant as the only vendor on the bill.
You quickly look at it...maybe check the interest rate at the bottom of your bill to make sure it correlates with what the CC issurer had promise you.
Everything is ok...no problems.
A few months go by, without using you card...your new CC statement shows several purchases...
Purchases you never made because you've only used your card once at that restaurant when there was nobody else standing next to you.
The point is...if there were other patrons standing in line with access to your credit card...
You really do not know whom committed the fraud and most likely don't care because your CC issurer believes you and removes the charges.
However, not every body is as forgiving as I was when such first occurred to me.
--------------
On a side note, this is the age of litigation...slip and fall on the floor of any business...can't work for a few weeks...
Most people would sue for whatever they can get.
Yet, a few kind hearted individuals will just brush it off and say no biggie.
I have a friend that did just that (didn't sue) at a grocery store when a stack of Pepsi cases fell on him and knocked him to the ground inside of a grocery store...giving him a stinger in his neck for two months.
--------------
If anything else doesn't make sense...
Ask the question and then you can state after reading my answer if it doesn't jive with you.
Here's a brief note about my background so you may have a better understanding of me as a person.
I grew up in a military family, lived in some tough neighborhoods in different countries and I'm an ex-army ranger.
I've also played sport on an international level.
Routines and habits guides my life...makes it easier to backtrack to find the source of a problem that needs fixing.
I do whatever it takes to protect my privacy and family...whatever it takes and I do not turn the other cheek in most situations.
In other words, there are some things I let slide (do nothing, do very little or was naive) while others would not have done the same thing.
Simply, its my choice and I do not tell you how to make your choices concerning you or your family.
Take care.
Mark
First of all, why would you specifically state something doesn't jive when you knew I didn't provide any timeline?
Had you just stated you wanted a timeline...that's different...timeline is provided below.
However, to say something doesn't jive before your request of any timeline facts tells me something else.
Regardless, I did give one specific detailed about one particular CC fraud, you probably missed it amongst my ramblings.
Further, your quote implies via the way its worded I follow the waiter anywhere (kitchen, bathroom, next table they wait on et cetera).
Just to be clear even though I know what you meant or didn't imply...
I just wanted to ensure someone reading your quote doesn't think I said something else...
I said, very specifically, I get up and follow the waitress/waiter back to their credit card scanner.
A few posts later, I got even more specific via describing I don't follow them anywhere else except to the payment counter where the credit card scanner is located at.
Further posts later after that, I got even more specific via describing exactly what would prompt me to get out of my seat...
Seeing other paying patrons at the payment counter or seeing waitresses/waiterers carelessly putting down the credit card of another patron for anyone to read or steal.
In addition, I said, if there aren't any patrons at the payment counter...there's no need for me to get up because I have some assurance that the waitress/waiter is the only person that has the opportunity to view my credit card info and not other patrons standing in line to make their payment.
Since your eager for a timeline...
1. I worked in a restaurant myself in college (one summer only).
Some very nice people I worked with and some very not nice people I worked with (I knew about some of their other activities).
2. Many years later...different state...I became a victim of credit card fraud by a restaurant employee.
Employee is later fired.
3. Many years later...I became a victim of credit card fraud by a restaurant employee a second time (different restaurant).
Employee is later fired and arrested for other related crimes.
4. A few years later...I'm sitting in court waiting to get a in person look at a killer of a relative during the killer's arraignment...
There are these other cases and almost all of them involve Identity Theft of different types.
The thing is this...until those court cases...
I never classified the prior credit card frauds as Identity Theft.
I only look at it as credit card fraud and saw Identity Theft as something completely different.
For example, someone pretending to be you or I to secure a loan from the bank et cetera.
5. Several months later, talking to a niece at Univ of Illinois about our cousin...
She tells me about some waitress scamming (skimming) credit card numbers.
All of the above...I start doing some research (online, talking to friend that's a state trooper et cetera)...
I find out that Identity Theft is big business...fastest growing crime.
Now...I'm thinking...I was naive in when I was young when the first credit card fraud occurred...
How can I protect myself now.
I give my credit card issurer a phone call along with checking out the security recommendations they make at their website.
* Check your credit report once per year (its free)
* Don't let your credit card out of your sight
* They also recommend I get a security code on my account and a few other things.
I'm now thinking....that's easy to do.
They also recommend other things...probably stuff you already know about or can find out by calling your own CC issurer.
The point, those that view your credit card with your permission...you want to know whom they are.
For example, lets pretend you have a brand new credit card...never used.
You go to a restaurant and after your meal you go to the front counter to pay your bill via that brand new credit card.
Cash register gal scans your card, scans it again and then again...everything is ok.
Later in the month you get your first CC bill...just the restaurant as the only vendor on the bill.
You quickly look at it...maybe check the interest rate at the bottom of your bill to make sure it correlates with what the CC issurer had promise you.
Everything is ok...no problems.
A few months go by, without using you card...your new CC statement shows several purchases...
Purchases you never made because you've only used your card once at that restaurant when there was nobody else standing next to you.
The point is...if there were other patrons standing in line with access to your credit card...
You really do not know whom committed the fraud and most likely don't care because your CC issurer believes you and removes the charges.
However, not every body is as forgiving as I was when such first occurred to me.
--------------
On a side note, this is the age of litigation...slip and fall on the floor of any business...can't work for a few weeks...
Most people would sue for whatever they can get.
Yet, a few kind hearted individuals will just brush it off and say no biggie.
I have a friend that did just that (didn't sue) at a grocery store when a stack of Pepsi cases fell on him and knocked him to the ground inside of a grocery store...giving him a stinger in his neck for two months.
--------------
If anything else doesn't make sense...
Ask the question and then you can state after reading my answer if it doesn't jive with you.
Here's a brief note about my background so you may have a better understanding of me as a person.
I grew up in a military family, lived in some tough neighborhoods in different countries and I'm an ex-army ranger.
I've also played sport on an international level.
Routines and habits guides my life...makes it easier to backtrack to find the source of a problem that needs fixing.
I do whatever it takes to protect my privacy and family...whatever it takes and I do not turn the other cheek in most situations.
In other words, there are some things I let slide (do nothing, do very little or was naive) while others would not have done the same thing.
Simply, its my choice and I do not tell you how to make your choices concerning you or your family.
Take care.
Mark
Holy cow. I just meant it didnt jive because I saw only two possible sequences and neither made sense to me:
(1) You had credit card fraud occur against you personally but you did nothing and then you heard about the court case and then you started following your credit card everywhere.
or
(2) You heard about the court case, started following your credit card everywhere and then had fraud committed against you (which implies your efforts were in vain)
I understand now that (1) is what happened. Seems a bit strange that you did nothing when the crimes specifically against you occurred but waited until by chance you overheard a court case. Thank you for your (long) explaination.
What if you can't see the payment counter from where you are seated, do you stand up?
What happens if there are no patrons at the payment counter when your waiter leaves but as he arrives there a patron shows up, do you sprint over there to protect your credit card?
Don't answer, I'm joking...the whole thing seems silly to me but as you say, you are entitled to do whatever you want to "protect your family" and others are entitled to think its way over-the-top and unnecessary.
And for the record I didn't tell you what to do, I just told you what I thought of what you are doing. Big difference.
Agree.
Also, I misunderstood some things you said...thanks for the clarification.
Mark