Using ES Time and Sales

[traderkay]

So Jack, is it a) or b) ? Answer or go away already...............

 

[gms]

traderkay, I understand you were in attendance for, what was it, 2 or 3 days or parts of? in Jack's group but finally had to be kicked out because of your interrupting with harrassing remarks. You used that opportunity to not be serious, like the others in the group, but to taunt Jack. I hear other people are in that group and making money. They come back every day to chat with Jack and make some more money. My take then, is that they're probably serious. Since you didn't really look into Jack's stuff then, my guess is you don't really want to examine his stuff now, not really, you just want to throw one thing after another at him, and that's exactly what you've been doing, that and calling him names and ranking on him. His answering your questions would really make no difference to you 'cause no matter how he replies you're going to throw something else at him. If I were you, I'd divert my time and effort to figuring out why I wasn't making it while others were. Can't pay the bills with harrassing remarks.

 

[Grob109]

Quote from OldTrader:



Here's what Jack/grob said: "The minority size on the bbid and bask rules. I use the smaller number of contracts showing to determine what side I am on. If the bbid is smallest then the seller controls and I am in short. I stay there and the market falls. After a while and through several prices changes the smaller number shifts to the bask side."

There does not seem to be much qualification here. It sounds like he hits the bid when it's smaller, and vice versa.

Chances are though you are right....and I'll tell you why: No one can possible hit all the bids when they are the smaller size, and vice versa, because this happens nearly everytime a bid level (or ask level) is taken out.

But I wonder how many beginners are out there today trying to hit that small bid (or small ask)? I hope none...because if that is all there is to the technique then it does not work. Yet this seems to be the impression that Jack/grob has created.

You know, one of the problems that grob creates for himself is that he makes what appear to be outlandish claims for his methods. I recall back when he started talking about his "rocket" technique. He made some very large claims regarding what a beginner could do. As far as I know, no one did it. But if they did, let them step forward with a record.

Now Jack/grob seems to be claiming he can make $600 an hour with a one lot. Now I have to call bullshit on that one in the absence of any type of proof. I'd like just one person to step forward who has obtained that type of result for even a week.

The combination of outlandish claims and extremely poor communication skills is going to keep Jack/grob on the defense would be my guess.

OldTrader

I was suggesting some good ways to stay o the right side of the market.

I used 45 minutes of streaming data (it was not repeating as the record shows and no one has posted that it was repeating except some people who think it did because they ran it frequently and repeatedly to memorize it sufficiently. and then they did not note anything about when and whatever regarding the repeats. We are stuck with the that). Further they know on the demo that it is much easier to get better results because market orders do not buy the spread in demos or something.

We are trading with market orders and a consequence of that it that "hitting" is not a topic nor a term used. you introduce hitting and how much a disservice I am to others because they will try to "hit" prices.

We are primarily working with beginners in another context. beginners do not do SCT. We feel we are able to make that point.

At beginners requests, we focus on beginner trades which only occur with tough safety standards.

i muddied the waters because as I mentor one on I deal with forms of market efficiency. See the three mentioned in ET vis a vis Uof C. I then turn to financial efficiency. I have persons experience the pertnership of the market and the trader. The individual efficiences do combine in a manner. Both the market and the person have to be on the same page.

I posted the results of running along midday on Friday. The market financial efficiency in offering capital was constrained to a 2 1/2 point range. I refer to this as a H/L. Midday is a good time to run with SCT as a demo to a mentored beginner. It genarated 6 points. What we got out of that was that the trader efficiency was 2.4 times greater that the market offered. If 1000 people ran that midday in trading and posted their results when positive. we could measure how success works. A similar data set for losers could be run too, so then we would know how difficult the market was.

Look at fast trader's journal. I read is daily and keep notes and a folder. He achieves what he does in bursts between working at his job.

So, I ran the demo and noticed 9 trades generated 11.3 points in 45 minutes. Someone located that the demo replicated a pm trading interval. A lot of work was done to really bash the print to smithereens. You contribute as well.

This combination of attitudes and feelings and stuff shows everyone that our calculations of 500 bucks in one ninth of a day can never create 4500 dollars a day. It is clear what we can't do from the observers of what we did.

From my point of view, I am learning like crazy here. Actually for a minute I was going to make some suggestions to a few people here who are posting their results. They asked for some ideas.

The concensus here is that people over the long term average 1 ppoint a day per contract. Those people are very happy and can prove that is how the world works.

It looks like the focus you want is to have a week's log show a 600 dollar gain on one contract. When I mentor, one on one, We go for 300 bucks a day gross and with IB a net of about 223. We have 5,000 bucks on the table. I'll give you a progress report. Let Friday be day 1. Check out the attachment to see if it is sufficient.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from Grob109:



It looks like the focus you want is to have a week's log show a 600 dollar gain on one contract. When I mentor, one on one, We go for 300 bucks a day gross and with IB a net of about 223. We have 5,000 bucks on the table. I'll give you a progress report. Let Friday be day 1. Check out the attachment to see if it is sufficient.

No, you misunderstood. Near the beginning of this thread you indicated a belief that a beginner could make $600 per hour trading one contract with your method. That's what I'm questioning. That would be something on the order of $20K for the week trading a one lot....which I do not see happening.

Now, the above numbers of $300 per day per contract are much more moderate, and therefore more believable. I think that a beginner achieving that number as an average would be doing an excellent job though...and it would speak well for your methods. I'll look forward to seeing the posted results.

By the way, I don't know what the consensus is here for trading results. My opinion is that results are apt to vary widely by individual, and therefore a consensus number does not mean much to me.

OldTrader

 

[pspr]

Quote from Grob109:



This attachment is 45 mins off a T&S streaming data source on IB.

I use about three rules. I was mentoring beginner at the time today.

You can see by the notes above the 11 trades that it pulls down over 600 bucks an hour.

Yeah, I thought he said $600 per hour too!! Yup, he did!

Wally

 

[EMini-Player]

$600/hr is do-able, but on a 10-lot or at least a 5-lot.

-Fast

 

[trendy]

C'mon Jack give it up will you? On Friday you traded for 4 1/2 hours, trading 16 round-trip contracts, and you netted 6 points. That's 1 & 1/2 ticks per contract.

So, if I traded a 10 lot and got 1/2 a point on the trade, should I crow and say that I got twice the h/l range with my 5 points. I think not. To say you did 2.4 times the h/l during that time is misleading. Now, if you did 2.4 times the h/l for each contract you traded, then that would be impressive. The bottom line is you traded for 4 1/2 hours and made $300 gross. That works out to $433.33/day. A far cry from the $4,500/day you were touting earlier in the week when trading on a sim.

 

[pspr]

Oh, yeah, I remember now. That was the post with the trades at prices that the market didn't even trade at at those times. Here is Grob's attachment.

Wally

 

[trendy]

The funniest thing about Jack's sim. trading is remembering that Jack started a thread some time ago called Tomorrow's Newspaper Today. But, in looking at the sim. trading one has to wonder whether it should have been called Yesterday's Newspaper Today.

 

[nwbprop]

Hi Jack,

Today was a pretty good day for me as i am really trying too get the SCT and apa's too become habitual. Gross 6.1 on 5 trades. I attached my SCT sheet. I jsut had a few Q's if i may. i noticed that we had 3 washes/apa's in a row from bar 13 too 22. The apa's kept on making me get relong even though we were in a very slow drift down. Is there a way that we might be able too recognize this slow drift down and know the apa's are not necessary and actaully put you on the wrong side of the market?
Of course if it was a pt 3, then i would have made money getting relong but instead we kept that slow drift. Also, i saw that you were actaully carving your trades in Paltalk and was wondering if you could elaborate on that process. Today, i actaully carved once by getting short at bar 13 (10:30) but was not sure i knew exactly y i got short(some signal that my mind recognizes but i dont know what it was). A guess might be a major shift from A too D.