I don't understand enough of his posts to do this breakdown explaination fulltime. Like Oldtrader explained it has been my experience that the bid and offer flip back and forth so much with out much logic that it would seem to be hard to trade stictly from the quoted size unless there is something I am missing or not seeing. That is why I was saying I would like to see someones results stictly trading this way. It would seem to get in, you would market into the trade end up losing ticks all day long. So I don't know how viable or reliable it really is even for typical scalpers. However I am entirely opened minded to exploring something that works. After seeing someone scalp 250 lots in the ES back and forth for ticks to a few ticks, I know anything is possible although he was paying member clearing rates which are only a few cents per RT. Maybe that is what it would take, member rates.
Using ES Time and Sales
- Thread starter traderkay
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I don't understand enough of his posts to do this breakdown explaination fulltime. Like Oldtrader explained it has been my experience that the bid and offer flip back and forth so much with out much logic that it would seem to be hard to trade stictly from the quoted size unless there is something I am missing or not seeing. That is why I was saying I would like to see someones results stictly trading this way. It would seem to get in, you would market into the trade end up losing ticks all day long. So I don't know how viable or reliable it really is even for typical scalpers. However I am entirely opened minded to exploring something that works. After seeing someone scalp 250 lots in the ES back and forth for ticks to a few ticks, I know anything is possible although he was paying member clearing rates which are only a few cents per RT. Maybe that is what it would take, member rates.
Hi Jack. I just got back and see that i missed a lot of action. I Just wanted too say that i really appreciate this post. It is definite a keeper. I really like how you used the picture of a table with 2 lines and each line broken down into groups with placards. I have put ++++ too questions and comments i have.
This stuff is really fascinating. The problem i have is how too efficiently use this in conjunction with SCT. I am under the assumption that A/D shifts every 3 too 6 minutes. Does this mean that we should be taking reversal trades every 3 too 6 minutes or are we just using the A/D for certain times in conjunction with SCT like during IF 2 times. At some pt, i would like too be able too reverse every 3 to 6 minutes according too A/D too make as much money as possible. I feel like there is a lot of steps between SCT where you only use it during IF 2 times and the level when you are just reversing every 3 too 6 minutes getting every tick out of the market. Could you go into more depth of which times you actually reverse when you see the A/D switch compared too SCT where you are not doing every reverse when A/D actually switches but holding for the trends. I might ahe done an extremely bad job of explaining my questions. This could be indicative of my understanding as this is new too me.
Thanks.
Jc
now i go review my hotlist and sct sheets
This stuff is really fascinating. The problem i have is how too efficiently use this in conjunction with SCT. I am under the assumption that A/D shifts every 3 too 6 minutes. Does this mean that we should be taking reversal trades every 3 too 6 minutes or are we just using the A/D for certain times in conjunction with SCT like during IF 2 times. At some pt, i would like too be able too reverse every 3 to 6 minutes according too A/D too make as much money as possible. I feel like there is a lot of steps between SCT where you only use it during IF 2 times and the level when you are just reversing every 3 too 6 minutes getting every tick out of the market. Could you go into more depth of which times you actually reverse when you see the A/D switch compared too SCT where you are not doing every reverse when A/D actually switches but holding for the trends. I might ahe done an extremely bad job of explaining my questions. This could be indicative of my understanding as this is new too me.
Thanks.
Jc
now i go review my hotlist and sct sheets
I use the T&S information mainly to assist with trade entries and exits during the trade day. While watching the T&S window during trading I look for large lot orders (50 to 100 lots and above...depending on the days overall volume flow), and I look at the T&S scroll speed and changes to the scroll speed, and also the "bid" and "ask" data. Watching the T&S data is not rocket science and if you take 60 to 90 days to really focus on it you will start to see patterns of behavior IMO. The T&S has a personality like any other indicator and after a patient but very focused review you will start to understand the T&S behavior. Just as in anyother aspect of trading, you must take the time to watch how the T&S "acts" as different scenarios play out during each trade day.
Fast trader-
I have noticed what you describe - i.e. price moving the opposite way to what what T&S 'appears' to be saying. I have never traded it though, because it doesn't always happen. I don't think it would work to simply trade with the thin side all day.
Are there any othere criteria that you use as a filter? You mentioned key reversal pts - are there others?
thanks,
1c
I have noticed what you describe - i.e. price moving the opposite way to what what T&S 'appears' to be saying. I have never traded it though, because it doesn't always happen. I don't think it would work to simply trade with the thin side all day.
Are there any othere criteria that you use as a filter? You mentioned key reversal pts - are there others?
thanks,
1c
No, I don't like to complicate things. No advanced mathematical indicators; no system-generated signals; just some simple charts. I have to analyze multiple time-frames for this to work properly. Basically, all I'm doing is identifying the 3 min trend, then using the 1 min. and 100-tick chart for Triggers in the direction of the 3 min. trend. T&S and the Bid/Ask Size is the last part of equation. It's used seconds before I enter the trade. Sometimes waiting 5-10 seconds can get me an extra tick or two on entry. To some; that's not much but when you're scalping for 3-6 ticks on every trade, it makes a difference.
I use the charts for buy/sell signals. The T&S and Bid/Ask Size is used to fine-tune the entry; but the charts are the primary tool used for trade signals. I'm surprised Grob can pull out as many points as he says he can by just using the TWS Bid/Ask data. That's very cool, but I can not do it. I need my pretty charts
-Fast
I have never been able to match what I say into anyone's pictures on the first pass.
So far what I have done here is go through posting a demo print, and some specific responses to clean up the timing flak.
A lot of people here are responding to my posts. they certainly help me to get more familiar with the nature of ET and the kind of people here. There is quite a spectrum.
I noticed when I posted a real time print from an account being traded. a question came up about it's lack of clarity. when the trading description which logged the print was posted, there were no more comments.
Most recently, an example was posted in fine detail to illustrate some comments. for which I am thankful. A few more people participated around that post and I am finally getting a better view of where people are in their reading here.
AMT4SWA's post was a mellow clincher. The key points I liked best were the 60 to 90 day transition for behavioral analysis on the T&S. Secondly I liked knowing that T&S s used by AMT4SWA is mainly an assistance tool for him. In the first challenge day recently, he was the one who "carried a trade and scaled above it for quite a while until the early trade resolved back into profitability. For sure "reading" the always keep a more objective perspective on the table when you have to do that to keep pulling money out of the market and not have any loosing trades.
All that said, I have been classifying the respondents here from expert to heckler so that we can move it along ASAP.
I have been reading the journal of FT as posted and tabbing it as an exercise as well. I usually run about 12 systems concurrently in my regime. My regime means my mental exercising. I spend continuing time tweaking the systems to take them up another notch as a personal training effort to keep alert.
Fast trader has a job and just plays the market before work and lunch times. A lot of hecklers are entrenched in their approaches and are immovable in their decision making at this point.
Another person participating here i8s doing 8 to 10 points aday and has a couple monthes experience.
With this as the flavor of the commentary connected with what I posted. I suggest that everyone have at least a triangle of information to work with at all times. A tripod.
AMT4SWA uses X and Y and then "minly" reads the T&S to see how the T&S is acting. And he squeeses everydrop out of it. Similarly, the 8 to 10 point person is using SCT on charts, reading three indicators including vloume, MACD and STOC. That is a nice tripod too.
On the down side for several people is the fact that they are fragmenting all their data input because of the noncomparitive nature of the data. It is of too short of duration for the skills. They are inefficient and cannot gather data sets, nor can they practice and annalytical procedure on the data they are not getting. This reinforces NLP failure pictures. Some are getting to periodic blow off at this point because of the strong bad reinforcement.
What is next.
I will continue to provide intelligible results that are palatable because they are prints of successes. I will explain the successes with trading descriptions. That is the context. Next I will deal with the methods that fit together to straighten out how things work by pairing new stuff up with understood other facets. We are at a point where people can criticise print as not real vis a vis their charts and their T&S. I run on CME and globex for ES so I can also illustrate why these people are so persistent in their missing the target on confirming stuff as a precursor for following the trades on the monitor regimes they use.
So far it is more important to think you are right than to spruce up your bottom line. At some point makinga lot of money will prevail. there are two stages traditionally: AHA and Having a Religious experience. Each has it's own vocabulary. Right now, in here there are only three posters who have had the AHA and two who have had the religious experience. AMT4SWA has definitely gotten religion and so has his family. The Christmas tree for him this year will have an acceptance letter from his employer of his quitting his job.
When I quit in 1961 I was offered a 7,000 raise which i did not accept and which represented the going annual rate for teaching. I took up teaching it turned out since it did not i8nterfer with the market when I was in class and secondly it only involved 34 weeks a year.
So we need to get everyone to AHA ASAP. and then later have a religious experience.
build a tripod.
Do one market.
Follow price charts.
Use the T&S or the IB market depth on TWS.
Set up the market line so you have it as attached below.
I will compress the 60 to 90 daysas best I can.
Another person here and I will double team Fast Track.l He needs to add 40 points profit sets at frequent intervals. everyother one he will take out of the market and spend so he gets used to money. the one kept in will allow him to procede to multiply contracts so we can make money and also have a little wiggle room to build skills for scaling. The attack on making more points a day in ES (do this if you can manage it) will be to spend more time collecting points per trade. Second, you will trade when point are being offered only. And Third you are finished with the losing trade scenario.
I post trades in real time by speaking them (audio) and someone notes them on a transcript being followed my everyone. They look like S1, L2, S3. S is short; L is long; All are market reversals. Another word can appear "out". After "out" I may later say "in L17" Everyone knows the next trade in advance. They are set up as reversals@mkt. "T" has to be punched and the reverse chron shows the value. The trade description is filled in continually. since i am narrating etc. My log is completed by the person assisting me at the time. I hit the keys and set up the trades though. They are double checked by the logger.
There will be no scaling for a while. There will be about 8 APA's a day and you will not know it. The T&S will be 100% backed up by SCT trading. Concurrently I run beginners and intermediates and no one here wil be aware of that except for the fact they have indicator based tripods.
The entire purpose of everything is to build complete and comprehensive NLP picture sets that bury garbage, myths, and baggage acquired mostly by consisten prior failure.
This is the starting point.
So far what I have done here is go through posting a demo print, and some specific responses to clean up the timing flak.
A lot of people here are responding to my posts. they certainly help me to get more familiar with the nature of ET and the kind of people here. There is quite a spectrum.
I noticed when I posted a real time print from an account being traded. a question came up about it's lack of clarity. when the trading description which logged the print was posted, there were no more comments.
Most recently, an example was posted in fine detail to illustrate some comments. for which I am thankful. A few more people participated around that post and I am finally getting a better view of where people are in their reading here.
AMT4SWA's post was a mellow clincher. The key points I liked best were the 60 to 90 day transition for behavioral analysis on the T&S. Secondly I liked knowing that T&S s used by AMT4SWA is mainly an assistance tool for him. In the first challenge day recently, he was the one who "carried a trade and scaled above it for quite a while until the early trade resolved back into profitability. For sure "reading" the always keep a more objective perspective on the table when you have to do that to keep pulling money out of the market and not have any loosing trades.
All that said, I have been classifying the respondents here from expert to heckler so that we can move it along ASAP.
I have been reading the journal of FT as posted and tabbing it as an exercise as well. I usually run about 12 systems concurrently in my regime. My regime means my mental exercising. I spend continuing time tweaking the systems to take them up another notch as a personal training effort to keep alert.
Fast trader has a job and just plays the market before work and lunch times. A lot of hecklers are entrenched in their approaches and are immovable in their decision making at this point.
Another person participating here i8s doing 8 to 10 points aday and has a couple monthes experience.
With this as the flavor of the commentary connected with what I posted. I suggest that everyone have at least a triangle of information to work with at all times. A tripod.
AMT4SWA uses X and Y and then "minly" reads the T&S to see how the T&S is acting. And he squeeses everydrop out of it. Similarly, the 8 to 10 point person is using SCT on charts, reading three indicators including vloume, MACD and STOC. That is a nice tripod too.
On the down side for several people is the fact that they are fragmenting all their data input because of the noncomparitive nature of the data. It is of too short of duration for the skills. They are inefficient and cannot gather data sets, nor can they practice and annalytical procedure on the data they are not getting. This reinforces NLP failure pictures. Some are getting to periodic blow off at this point because of the strong bad reinforcement.
What is next.
I will continue to provide intelligible results that are palatable because they are prints of successes. I will explain the successes with trading descriptions. That is the context. Next I will deal with the methods that fit together to straighten out how things work by pairing new stuff up with understood other facets. We are at a point where people can criticise print as not real vis a vis their charts and their T&S. I run on CME and globex for ES so I can also illustrate why these people are so persistent in their missing the target on confirming stuff as a precursor for following the trades on the monitor regimes they use.
So far it is more important to think you are right than to spruce up your bottom line. At some point makinga lot of money will prevail. there are two stages traditionally: AHA and Having a Religious experience. Each has it's own vocabulary. Right now, in here there are only three posters who have had the AHA and two who have had the religious experience. AMT4SWA has definitely gotten religion and so has his family. The Christmas tree for him this year will have an acceptance letter from his employer of his quitting his job.
When I quit in 1961 I was offered a 7,000 raise which i did not accept and which represented the going annual rate for teaching. I took up teaching it turned out since it did not i8nterfer with the market when I was in class and secondly it only involved 34 weeks a year.
So we need to get everyone to AHA ASAP. and then later have a religious experience.
build a tripod.
Do one market.
Follow price charts.
Use the T&S or the IB market depth on TWS.
Set up the market line so you have it as attached below.
I will compress the 60 to 90 daysas best I can.
Another person here and I will double team Fast Track.l He needs to add 40 points profit sets at frequent intervals. everyother one he will take out of the market and spend so he gets used to money. the one kept in will allow him to procede to multiply contracts so we can make money and also have a little wiggle room to build skills for scaling. The attack on making more points a day in ES (do this if you can manage it) will be to spend more time collecting points per trade. Second, you will trade when point are being offered only. And Third you are finished with the losing trade scenario.
I post trades in real time by speaking them (audio) and someone notes them on a transcript being followed my everyone. They look like S1, L2, S3. S is short; L is long; All are market reversals. Another word can appear "out". After "out" I may later say "in L17" Everyone knows the next trade in advance. They are set up as reversals@mkt. "T" has to be punched and the reverse chron shows the value. The trade description is filled in continually. since i am narrating etc. My log is completed by the person assisting me at the time. I hit the keys and set up the trades though. They are double checked by the logger.
There will be no scaling for a while. There will be about 8 APA's a day and you will not know it. The T&S will be 100% backed up by SCT trading. Concurrently I run beginners and intermediates and no one here wil be aware of that except for the fact they have indicator based tripods.
The entire purpose of everything is to build complete and comprehensive NLP picture sets that bury garbage, myths, and baggage acquired mostly by consisten prior failure.
This is the starting point.
- Status