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Using ES Time and Sales
- Thread starter traderkay
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Quote from Specul8r:
Thanks for the sage advice, but my point was that it is 100 times harder to spot a true elephant in a market that is flooded with them, then say on a medium cap tech stock where an elephant can be spotted roaming a mile away...
An elephant stepping into a bath-tub or an elephant stepping into a river...
PEACE and good-speculating
I thought the Balmer sale of Microsoft was the ultimate indicator that msft was doomed for a lot more downside. But the tide has lifted msft also. I read somewhere that insider selling isn't a great indicator since there are a lot of reasons why insiders sell. However, insider buying happens only for one reason - when the insider believes that the stock is going up.
When it comes to individual stocks, especially thinly traded ones, there has to be a whole different way to "read the tape." When I mentioned months of watching the tape, I meant for each market that you are contemplating trading. Most futures traders only watch a few markets at a time. I note that my IB TWS will only show me market depth for 3 markets at a time. Occasionally, I'd like more, but in reality, I can't watch much more at the same time.
I rarely have an open position in more than one market at once, so t&s limitation of Medved Quotetracker, which is limited to a single market, is adequate for me.
Quote from Grob109:
This attachment is 45 mins off a T&S streaming data source on IB.
I use about three rules. I was mentoring beginner at the time today.
You can see by the notes above the 11 trades that it pulls down over 600 bucks an hour.
The attachment shows your trades, but it doesn't give us an idea of how you used es T&S as a tool to make these trades. Care to elaborate?
Quote from Grob109:
This attachment is 45 mins off a T&S streaming data source on IB.
I use about three rules. I was mentoring beginner at the time today.
You can see by the notes above the 11 trades that it pulls down over 600 bucks an hour.
The other posters in this thread are using overkill or something.
If you look at the trading sequence you see a rythm. since i was mentoring I didn't step up the profit taking until the last third.
The one losing trade there was to show how long it takes to get back into rythm by waiting and then washing to get on the right side of the market.
The first trades were isolated. just to show how entries and exits work. Then I entered and reversed once and left. Did that twice to be a little redundant to let it sink in.
Finally I just kept pulling profits steadily with linked trades.
To do this you quash almost all the streaming data to get the crap out of the way. (See all the problems bear etc have with extraineous BS) You look at one horizontal line with about six real time values. All you do is stay on the "right" side of the trade.
I posted in one of the challenges last week that ET can't handle real time posts on trading. This print shows why ET doesn't work.
Just look at how the flow of trades goes. It is a very steady flow. I do not run 1 contract for this unless I am just running a beginner's account at my place. That is what that is.
Normal people who are above beginner run 10 cars or 25 or 50 or more. You have to just pace with the market in terms of quantity. It is a liquidity issue for the trader.
The caveat for giving out the rules for this, is that most people, as has been pointed out in your thread, cannot adjust mentally to the reality of making money. Usually it is better to just trade the person's account up and gradually let them sit in for spells.
More than half of my attention is to my log; but you can see by the print that I had to push about three buttons per trade event. I was also explaining it too, which takes some intellectual effort.
I know all this sounds arrogant to you but that is how life goes. I enjoy telling people how to make money and you usually see everything as arrogant BS.
The attachment is T&S trading at a beginner level.
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What is the long term profitability of this system? How stable are these $600/hour returns?
Quote from Grob109:
This attachment is 45 mins off a T&S streaming data source on IB.
I use about three rules. I was mentoring beginner at the time today.
You can see by the notes above the 11 trades that it pulls down over 600 bucks an hour.
Quote from mBear:
The attachment shows your trades, but it doesn't give us an idea of how you used es T&S as a tool to make these trades. Care to elaborate?
Be glad to elaborate. I am trying to think up what to add to the record.
Would you like to have a set of steps for and entry and exit?
Would you like to know what to look at to reverse?
Would you like to have my go through the last set as linked trades to see how to keep the rythm rolling?
Usually I do not do 1 contract. Iwould rather chat about 10 and add in how you know to lay back on cars when things warrant.
I do not want anyone to not be able to keep the flow of profits rolling just because they didn't take care to be very safe at all times. People here in ET get into whipsaw conditions for some reasons. We need to keep that stuff from happening all the time because it is not a good idea.
When I see most posts in ET I notice people have a little fear or whatever in the mix. It is important to not dosome things when you aren't being straight with yourself.
Please orient me to the way to get this to work for everyone. I want to explain stuff from your vantage point primarily.
Quote from prophet:
What is the long term profitability of this system? How stable are these $600/hour returns?
Who knows? We were running between 35.2 and 38.1; it is common to use other values as well. If I have less than 4500 to 6000 contract vol per 5 duration on a 5 min chart, I guess I would not keep cycling at that rate. (it would be slower). The depth was always about three digits. You can count on just a noise level to support this. Over the long term it will generally be there.
For high volatility bars (they are supported by high contract volume) things pick up quite a bit pace wise. Probably several multiples.
The 600 is not representative. This was a beginner demo in a new account and limited to 1 contract. See another post on the segments of the print.
If stability needs to be handled in your approach, I am glad that you do it. The general market activity and paces all can be handled with the exception of the max # of cars; you have to cut back when the depth is less than three digits if you are running over 25. I just watch the fill time and the advent of partials. This is not addressing one contract though. 1 contract is a limit beginners face. 600 bucks is a beginner situation with one contract. Beginners always find that they can work steadily and it all comes down for them just as steadily.
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